Football (Soccer) Thread

[alfred russel]

Because the game was played and the outcome decided the same way it was for all the other teams?  This is World Cup Soccer not some pee wee good feelings league.

What harm is there in setting the precedent that if there is a clearly missed call that effects the outcome of the game, and both sides agree to a replay, there can be a replay?

[Valmy]

What harm is there in setting the precedent that if there is a clearly missed call that effects the outcome of the game, and both sides agree to a replay, there can be a replay?

Tons of harm.  There will be tons of political and other pressures on countries to replay games from the pissed off losers everytime a ref blows a call.  Refs blow calls, it is part of the game, deal with it FFS.  I mean I know Ireland got screwed but surely France and every other nation in the world has been screwed at some point.  If you don't want Refs determining the outcomes of your games maybe you should be better at soccer and be ahead by two goals instead of one.

[Tamas]

What this should be a trigger for then, is introduction of video-refeering in some way. It is absurd that everyone in the crowd and in front of the TV could very well see wtf was happening but the ref couldnt.

Altough, of course, the lineman had to see it. He just obviously did not dare destroy France with his call.

[Tamas]

What harm is there in setting the precedent that if there is a clearly missed call that effects the outcome of the game, and both sides agree to a replay, there can be a replay?

Tons of harm.  There will be tons of political and other pressures on countries to replay games from the pissed off losers everytime a ref blows a call.  Refs blow calls, it is part of the game, deal with it FFS.  I mean I know Ireland got screwed but surely France and every other nation in the world has been screwed at some point.  If you don't want Refs determining the outcomes of your games maybe you should be better at soccer and be ahead by two goals instead of one.

Obviously you do have a point, but this was probably the most blatant and obvious 4-way fault by a player I have ever seen (2 offsides, 2 handballs). This is not just a simple blunder by the ref. It is a mind-blowing oversight that just screams foul intent and "political" considerations by the ref.

[Valmy]

What this should be a trigger for then, is introduction of video-refeering in some way. It is absurd that everyone in the crowd and in front of the TV could very well see wtf was happening but the ref couldnt.

Altough, of course, the lineman had to see it. He just obviously did not dare destroy France with his call.

Video replay is a perfectly acceptable option.  Of course the game would have to stop for several minutes while they do the review and you know how soccer purists hate stopping the game for any reason.

[Valmy]

Obviously you do have a point, but this was probably the most blatant and obvious 4-way fault by a player I have ever seen (2 offsides, 2 handballs). This is not just a simple blunder by the ref. It is a mind-blowing oversight that just screams foul intent and "political" considerations by the ref.

I agree it was mindblowing and I feel for Ireland (of course mind you France might have qualified anyway.  It was TIED at 1 which is why I find it difficult to believe a referee would risk his career just to save France when France was not really in need of help.  Of course we will never know now how the match would have played out).

Frankly the dude should never officiate another game again.  The whole crew should be disciplined for incompetence is not corruption.  How the hell they missed the offsides...I mean that would have been called in a High School girls game.

[Tamas]

Obviously you do have a point, but this was probably the most blatant and obvious 4-way fault by a player I have ever seen (2 offsides, 2 handballs). This is not just a simple blunder by the ref. It is a mind-blowing oversight that just screams foul intent and "political" considerations by the ref.

I agree it was mindblowing and I feel for Ireland (of course mind you France might have qualified anyway.  It was TIED at 1 which is why I find it difficult to believe a referee would risk his career just to save France when France was not really in need of help.  Of course we will never know now how the match would have played out).

Frankly the dude should never officiate another game again.  The whole crew should be disciplined for incompetence is not corruption.  How the hell they missed the offsides...I mean that would have been called in a High School girls game.

France played like crap the whole time. They needed all the help they could get. Why do you think Henry was so desperate that he handballed twice? Okay, you might convince me the first was by accident, but the second was clearly a conscious effort to control the ball.

And this would be far from being the first time to see some unkown referee used in sport-politically important matches to stear the result if needed. The best examples are the games during the WC in Korea: what they did to Italy and Spain there forever tainted the international games.

Speaking of which, I want these competitions to cease.

[Valmy]

France played like crap the whole time. They needed all the help they could get. Why do you think Henry was so desperate that he handballed twice? Okay, you might convince me the first was by accident, but the second was clearly a conscious effort to control the ball.

Yet they were still tied.  France is just not that good this time around that is why they were in this position to begin with.  But it was not as if if the Refs didn't bail them out Ireland would have whipped 'em by three.

Speaking of which, I want these competitions to cease.

World Cup competitions?

[alfred russel]

What harm is there in setting the precedent that if there is a clearly missed call that effects the outcome of the game, and both sides agree to a replay, there can be a replay?

Tons of harm.  There will be tons of political and other pressures on countries to replay games from the pissed off losers everytime a ref blows a call.  Refs blow calls, it is part of the game, deal with it FFS.  I mean I know Ireland got screwed but surely France and every other nation in the world has been screwed at some point.  If you don't want Refs determining the outcomes of your games maybe you should be better at soccer and be ahead by two goals instead of one.

Aren't there already prohibitions concerning excessive political interference that can result in a federation's suspension by FIFA?

There are precedents in other sports--playing baseball games under protest is an example. In american football the sport is too violent to replay, but I do believe there is precedent for teams voluntarily forfeiting games that they won based on clear refereeing errors.

[Tamas]

France played like crap the whole time. They needed all the help they could get. Why do you think Henry was so desperate that he handballed twice? Okay, you might convince me the first was by accident, but the second was clearly a conscious effort to control the ball.

Yet they were still tied.  France is just not that good this time around that is why they were in this position to begin with.  But it was not as if if the Refs didn't bail them out Ireland would have whipped 'em by three.

Speaking of which, I want these competitions to cease.

World Cup competitions?

How many shots on goal did the Frenchies have until that point? The ref faced a decision there: piss of Ireland, or potentially piss of a major faction at his workplace, including his boss. He made a call.

And yes, international games are growing ever more pointless with (luckily) more international clubs. There should rather be a system to sort of expand the Champions Leauge or something.

[Valmy]

There are precedents in other sports--playing baseball games under protest is an example. In american football the sport is too violent to replay, but I do believe there is precedent for teams voluntarily forfeiting games that they won based on clear refereeing errors.

There are only two examples I can ever think of in baseball history and neither of those replayed the game.  They simply finished a game that was called for bizarre reasons.  Those two incidents I can think of are the Merkel Boner game way back in 1908 and the Pine Tar incident with George Brett in the 70s.  In neither case did they take an entire game already played and declare it invalid.  I can never think of that happening in any sport at any level over here.

In College Football I believe Harvard asked to be allowed to forfeit a game they won on bad calls but whatever the ruling body was back then did not let them.

[Valmy]

How many shots on goal did the Frenchies have until that point? The ref faced a decision there: piss of Ireland, or potentially piss of a major faction at his workplace, including his boss. He made a call.

Last I checked you score by getting the ball into the goal not by missing the goal.  Sure France would have been pissed off if he had called an obvious call.  What were they going to do?  Have him shot?

By the way one of the things that pisses me off about soccer fans is how they claim a team "dominated" a game they were ahead by a single goal.  Yeah that is not domination I don't care how pretty you looked getting that 1-0 lead.

[alfred russel]

There are precedents in other sports--playing baseball games under protest is an example. In american football the sport is too violent to replay, but I do believe there is precedent for teams voluntarily forfeiting games that they won based on clear refereeing errors.

There are only two examples I can ever think of in baseball history and neither of those replayed the game.  They simply finished a game that was called for bizarre reasons.  Those two incidents I can think of are the Merkel Boner game way back in 1908 and the Pine Tar incident with George Brett in the 70s.  In neither case did they take an entire game already played and declare it invalid.  I can never think of that happening in any sport at any level over here.

In College Football I believe Harvard asked to be allowed to forfeit a game they won on bad calls but whatever the ruling body was back then did not let them.

From the MLB website:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/start_end_4.jsp

4.19
PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire's decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team's chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.

[The Larch]

And yes, international games are growing ever more pointless with (luckily) more international clubs. There should rather be a system to sort of expand the Champions Leauge or something.

You're out of your mind. World Cup and Euro Cup are amongst the biggest sporting events there are. There's nothing pointless about them.

[Tamas]

And yes, international games are growing ever more pointless with (luckily) more international clubs. There should rather be a system to sort of expand the Champions Leauge or something.

You're out of your mind. World Cup and Euro Cup are amongst the biggest sporting events there are. There's nothing pointless about them.

Okay, after a downspell the last couple ones were pretty entertaining. I would just like more focus on high-end club competitions, rather.