[SPOILERS] A Dance With Dragons

[Siege]

Well, Winterfell is January and the Vale is on the cover.

[Camerus]

Recently finished it myself.  Nothing really new to add, my two biggest criticisms are:

1.  What's with the Dany chapters?  Clearly as she is going to be an important character later in the series, it makes sense to keep following her, or else she'd just be a ridiculous deus ex machina.  But do we literally have to read about her doing almost nothing for the whole book?  At least have her fight some wars against the slave states or go questing after something.  In fact, I really don't care about Meeren, so preferably having her do something related to Westeros would be way more interesting.  And having her dragons do nothing but sit around in a pit for 90% of the book isn't terribly exciting either.  Figuring out what to do with her character is the biggest problem with this series, IMO.

2)  I like Tyrion, but there's only so many "zomg, I'm bored on a ship" chapters I care to read.

Apart from that and some other minor gripes, I enjoyed reading it a good deal - not as much as the first three, but more than the fourth.  The Davos and Theon chapters were great, too, as were the Cersei and Jaime chapters later in the book.  And I liked the introduction of Jon Connington as a viewpoint, although I hope his "Targaryen" turns out to be a fake so that the story won't get any more ridiculous.  I also hope GRRM has a plan for those resurrections going on, because that has immense potential to be retarded, too.

Edit:  Oh yeah, and why no Sansa?  Seeing her with Littlefinger, who seems to be the main mover and shaker, would have been more interesting than the umpteenth Dany fretting over Daario chapter.

[Razgovory]

So does GRRM have an over arching plan, or does he just make it up as he goes?  Some of the schemes have become so convoluted, it's kind of silly.  Some of arch plotters seem to have ESP in knowing exactly how their victims will react to certain situations.

[Viking]

Well, Winterfell is January and the Vale is on the cover.

Winterfell, Storms End, The Eyrie, Dragonstone, Kings Landing, Riverrun, Highgarden, Sunspear, Casterly Rock, Oldtown, Harrenhall, Castle Black.

[Tamas]

Well, Winterfell is January and the Vale is on the cover.

Winterfell, Storms End, The Eyrie, Dragonstone, Kings Landing, Riverrun, Highgarden, Sunspear, Casterly Rock, Oldtown, Harrenhall, Castle Black.

[Viking]

Well, Winterfell is January and the Vale is on the cover.

Winterfell, Storms End, The Eyrie, Dragonstone, Kings Landing, Riverrun, Highgarden, Sunspear, Casterly Rock, Oldtown, Harrenhall, Castle Black.

Google is ur friend.

http://www.tednasmith.com/other/grrmartin.html

[The Larch]

Just finished it yesterday, felt slightly underwhelmed and dissapointed at the book, to be honest.

My main gripes, as I guess are most readers', was with the relative lack of plot advancement and the little rewards after such a long wait for the book. And can somebody plz nuke Mereen? Fecking useless narrative black hole... Aegon appeared in the Eastern continent and landed in Westero in just a few chapters, and Dany hasn't even moved from Slaver's Bay after two books...

[Josquius]

Still not done but one thing has struck me and annoyed me about this book. So many of the chapters are written in the unfolding mystery of what the hell is going on style.
Karstark's wedding for instance, he doesn't say she's marrying the magnar until quite a way into it and is trying to hint its Jon involved at first.
And when Theon is giving away Arya. No explanation of the situation he's in, I thought I'd missed a chapter, its just steadily revealed.
This...is fair enough sometimes. Makes you want to read more, beats just outright factually saying x is y. But it is overused.

The dragons also annoy me. They're just locked up. I keep wanting something to happen with them but no, they're just staying locked up.

[The Larch]

Mandatory "Downfall" parody video. Spoilerrific, of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Jm_mT1G8Q

[Tamas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9NiDqTftao&feature=related

[HisMajestyBOB]

I think my copy of the book is defective. Through the whole book it builds up to a major battle at Meereen, much like the Battle of the Blackwater in A Clash of Kings, with several viewpoints and all-around awesomeness. However, my book ended right before this climatic battle too place. Second, the title of the book is a reference to the Dance of the Dragons, a civil war between Targaryens that took place in the history of Westeros. However, this book didn't feature any fighting between Targaryens and very little with them - one basically disappears halfway through.
Anyone know where I can get a complete replacement for this defective copy?

I've finished the book and my opinions are pretty much the same as everyone else's. It's better than AFFC, but not by much, and it pales in comparison to the first three. Ultimately I think the series will turn out to be a "Read the first three, then read the plot summaries online" deal. And there's no way it will end in 2 more books.

Compare Daenarys' chapters in this book to Tyrion's in A Clash of Kings. Both are in charge of a city facing an imminent threat. In ACoK, we follow Tyrion as he effectively prepares the defenses and brilliantly politically maneuvers while thinking about his whore. Other POV chapters show the other side's preparations. The payoff is a major battle featuring several PoVs. In ADWD, Daenarys less-than-brilliantly maneuvers, her dragons are chained, and she spends most of her time whining about peace and thinking about Daario. We have several other PoV chapters of people converging on Meereen, but in the end we get no payoff - our battle is in another book.

I'm pretty much done with the series at this point. The writing quality is still good, but the overall plot progression is glacial. My predictions for the next book:
Daenarys spends the whole book on the Dothraki sea, reminiscing about Drogo and dreaming about Daario, comparing both to Khal Jerk. If we're lucky, she'll get rescued by Drogon at the end and will end up in Asshai. If we're unlucky, she ends up in Qarth, or just gets rescued, and spends the next book traveling from Qarth to Asshai.

The next book will be called The Winds of Winter, so the focus should be on the north. I predict we will get a whole book's worth of buildup to a major attack by the Others, but the most we see in-book are skirmishes with wights. The final chapter on the wall will have someone blowing a horn three times.

The battle of Meereen will be told in flashback, if at all. Selmy spends the whole book trying to keep the city together and angsts about being a Queensguard with a missing queen and his life of failure.


Now, I did enjoy most of the chapters in this book. I'm mainly frustrated with the glacial and even aimless plot progression. The writing is excellent. I told myself at the beginning "if Tyrion takes the whole book to get to Meereen, this will suck", but his chapters were all interesting and fun to read, even if he took the whole damn book getting to the city.

I'm going to stick with The Dresden Files. Each book there has a self-contained plot while also being part of a much larger, overarching plotline and filling in the setting's mythology and history. GRRM could learn something from Butcher.

EDIT: To say some good things about the book, I did enjoy Theon's chapters quite a lot. Tyrion's too, despite the whole "taking the whole book to get to Meereen". Penny is an excellent foil for him - I hope she doesn't die. I like the political intrigue, so I enjoyed some of Dany's chapters, but he really should have done more there. Have her fly off near the middle or 3/4 mark and then do a big battle - that could have been interesting. I also liked Jon's chapters - he's between several rocks and hard places, and manages to alienate his brothers, sends off his allies and friends, and gets many good rangers killed and then ultimately himself killed. But, it all worked very well and what Bowen did was definitely the right thing from his point of view. Part of me hopes that Jon stays dead.

I also liked Bran's chapters. They could have been made a bit shorter, sure, but they also showed the progress of time very well without spending many more chapters doing nothing. I wish he had showed a bit more of mysteries of that weirwood stuff, but then Bran (apparently) helps Theon remember his true self, so we get some good payoff from just 2 chapters.

[HisMajestyBOB]

http://io9.com/5820288/george-rr-martins-song-of-ice-and-fire-may-turn-out-to-be-eight-books-instead-of-seven

Talking to the Atlantic, George R.R. Martin admits that he may not be able to wrap up his massive A Song of Ice and Fire series in just two more books.

Jordanitis

[Viking]

I think my copy of the book is defective. Through the whole book it builds up to a major battle at Meereen, much like the Battle of the Blackwater in A Clash of Kings, with several viewpoints and all-around awesomeness. However, my book ended right before this climatic battle too place. Second, the title of the book is a reference to the Dance of the Dragons, a civil war between Targaryens that took place in the history of Westeros. However, this book didn't feature any fighting between Targaryens and very little with them - one basically disappears halfway through.
Anyone know where I can get a complete replacement for this defective copy?

I've finished the book and my opinions are pretty much the same as everyone else's. It's better than AFFC, but not by much, and it pales in comparison to the first three. Ultimately I think the series will turn out to be a "Read the first three, then read the plot summaries online" deal. And there's no way it will end in 2 more books.

Compare Daenarys' chapters in this book to Tyrion's in A Clash of Kings. Both are in charge of a city facing an imminent threat. In ACoK, we follow Tyrion as he effectively prepares the defenses and brilliantly politically maneuvers while thinking about his whore. Other POV chapters show the other side's preparations. The payoff is a major battle featuring several PoVs. In ADWD, Daenarys less-than-brilliantly maneuvers, her dragons are chained, and she spends most of her time whining about peace and thinking about Daario. We have several other PoV chapters of people converging on Meereen, but in the end we get no payoff - our battle is in another book.

I'm pretty much done with the series at this point. The writing quality is still good, but the overall plot progression is glacial. My predictions for the next book:
Daenarys spends the whole book on the Dothraki sea, reminiscing about Drogo and dreaming about Daario, comparing both to Khal Jerk. If we're lucky, she'll get rescued by Drogon at the end and will end up in Asshai. If we're unlucky, she ends up in Qarth, or just gets rescued, and spends the next book traveling from Qarth to Asshai.

The next book will be called The Winds of Winter, so the focus should be on the north. I predict we will get a whole book's worth of buildup to a major attack by the Others, but the most we see in-book are skirmishes with wights. The final chapter on the wall will have someone blowing a horn three times.

The battle of Meereen will be told in flashback, if at all. Selmy spends the whole book trying to keep the city together and angsts about being a Queensguard with a missing queen and his life of failure.


Now, I did enjoy most of the chapters in this book. I'm mainly frustrated with the glacial and even aimless plot progression. The writing is excellent. I told myself at the beginning "if Tyrion takes the whole book to get to Meereen, this will suck", but his chapters were all interesting and fun to read, even if he took the whole damn book getting to the city.

I'm going to stick with The Dresden Files. Each book there has a self-contained plot while also being part of a much larger, overarching plotline and filling in the setting's mythology and history. GRRM could learn something from Butcher.

EDIT: To say some good things about the book, I did enjoy Theon's chapters quite a lot. Tyrion's too, despite the whole "taking the whole book to get to Meereen". Penny is an excellent foil for him - I hope she doesn't die. I like the political intrigue, so I enjoyed some of Dany's chapters, but he really should have done more there. Have her fly off near the middle or 3/4 mark and then do a big battle - that could have been interesting. I also liked Jon's chapters - he's between several rocks and hard places, and manages to alienate his brothers, sends off his allies and friends, and gets many good rangers killed and then ultimately himself killed. But, it all worked very well and what Bowen did was definitely the right thing from his point of view. Part of me hopes that Jon stays dead.

I also liked Bran's chapters. They could have been made a bit shorter, sure, but they also showed the progress of time very well without spending many more chapters doing nothing. I wish he had showed a bit more of mysteries of that weirwood stuff, but then Bran (apparently) helps Theon remember his true self, so we get some good payoff from just 2 chapters.

1 - Changes and Ghost Story overlap
2 - Here is the dance of dragons as I see it

Tyrion - duude, you look like a Targaryen under that blue shit, are you perhaps the True Dimitri Aegon?
Young Griff - WFT?
Old Griff - Way and I'm the long give up for dead Jon Connington
Tyrion - man, whatever we've been smoking must be good.
Old Griff - We will take you to Daenyris to unite your forces together to retake the throne.
Tyrion - Don't do that, she will see you as a threat and execute you.
Old Griff - Shit didn't think of that.
Young Griff - On second thought, let us not go to Meereen it is a silly place. Let us go to Westeros instead.
Old Griff - Hmm.. not a bad idea.
Tyrion - now, let me find an excuse to get myself to a whorehouse so I can be abducted by a mad bear and be sold into slavery as a Chessgnome.

and so ends the targaryen conflict in the dance of dragons... I'm sort of expecting the epilogue in the last book to be about how the Great Other makes his first appearance in the books, brings the wall down and rampages through westeros killing all the characters and bringin on a new ice age.

Martin has spent 10 years now writing AFFC and ADWD and to be honest, in B5 terms, neither seems to be an arc episode. It's almost like the plot paused and characters all went on binges of fleshing out and self development.

If the entire point of Quentin Martell is to fill in for the sun setting in the east bit from (as it appears now)

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Then I suppose that the dothraki sea will go dry, the mountain will be swept away by some storm (or whoever is the faith's champion against robert strong) and Dany will get Pregnant by Dario Naharis (though it seems like she aborted in the Dragonstone scenes with Drogon) and Khal Drogo will live on as the Dragon Drogon.

damn you Martin, you made me get used to trope breaking....

Now all we need to see is that the White Knight (and white beard) will mount the white Viserion and Jorah Mormont (the green bear) will mount the green Rhaegal once he brings Tyrion to Dany to be her hand.

[Razgovory]

I hope he gets paid well.  It must be tough going five years between paychecks.

[Cecil]

http://io9.com/5820288/george-rr-martins-song-of-ice-and-fire-may-turn-out-to-be-eight-books-instead-of-seven

Talking to the Atlantic, George R.R. Martin admits that he may not be able to wrap up his massive A Song of Ice and Fire series in just two more books.

Jordanitis

x eleventybillion

Think fatguy will last another 20 years? He doesnt look that well on the pictures.