California lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history

[LaCroix]

if homosexual is defined as someone who, since childhood, has only ever been attracted to their own sex, then there most certainly were homos in ancient greece--making the last page or so of this thread rather confusing

[Richard Hakluyt]

Marty, there is a recently published biography of Constance Wilde (Lloyd), I've read several reviews of it in the press. According to these reviews (and the book, natch), Constance and Oscar did enjoy a passionate sex life for some years.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/books/7026858/a-heart-made-to-be-broken-.thtml

[Zoupa]

See, I knew I wasn't making that shit up.

Yeah there's ample literature about who gays can claim as "ancestors" and how far back it really goes as far as a social convention. After all, in the past many men who were fucking men only did it as a past-time - it wasn't an identity as we perceive it.

[garbon]

if homosexual is defined as someone who, since childhood, has only ever been attracted to their own sex, then there most certainly were homos in ancient greece--making the last page or so of this thread rather confusing

By that definition, you'd end up with a very small set of homosexuals. I had childhood attractions to girls.

[Valmy]

To be honest, why do children actually need the specifics? Until they hit a certain age, it isn't like they'll actually remember any details.

Not sure what you mean.

[MadImmortalMan]

"being gay" is mainly about identity in the Western culture - essentially a recognition of one's sexuality as an integral part of one's identity.

I am more than my job, who I fuck, the hobbies I have and the games I like to play. I think fixating on one thing to define you isn't healthy.

Edit: Not that any single part should make me a second-class citizen, of course.

[Martinus]

"being gay" is mainly about identity in the Western culture - essentially a recognition of one's sexuality as an integral part of one's identity.

I am more than my job, who I fuck, the hobbies I have and the games I like to play. I think fixating on one thing to define you isn't healthy.

Edit: Not that any single part should make me a second-class citizen, of course.

Again as I said, there is much more to gay identity than fixating on the fuck part.

For a heterosexual person, the part that is defined by our sexuality includes everything from sex, to family, to parenthood, to marriage, to love etc. This is a huge part of one's life - some would argue that it is the most important, central part of personal happiness.

Telling that gay sexual orientation is about "who you fuck" is like telling a freshly "made" father that his entire experience is essentially about squirting some sperm into a vagina.

Edit: and then, on top of that, comes the entire commonality of experience that is shared by gays in Western culture and is quite unique (your first same sex crush on a straight friend, your coming out to your parents, your friends, etc., your experience with prejudice etc.). It can be compared to stuff like a bond that war veterans share, even if they did not get to meet each other until after the war - they know and lived through stuff other people have not.

[The Brain]

What is the exact definition of "gay" that you are using? I've been trying to avoid asking that question but I fear I need the exact definition.

Well?

[garbon]

To be honest, why do children actually need the specifics? Until they hit a certain age, it isn't like they'll actually remember any details.

Not sure what you mean.

You said that you want children to learn specifics over overarching themes. My contention is that overarching themes will actually stick with children better than specific details.  Sure, I knew all the state capitals in 5th grade - hell if I know those now.  Sure I knew precise dates for various events in WWI in 8th grade - not really sure about them now but I can still tell you broad themes/events about the conflict.

[garbon]

What is the exact definition of "gay" that you are using? I've been trying to avoid asking that question but I fear I need the exact definition.

Well?

We've already had this discussion many times in the past, so I'm not willing to play, grumbler.  Oddly enough though, Marti's post right before yours has some detail.

[The Brain]

What is the exact definition of "gay" that you are using? I've been trying to avoid asking that question but I fear I need the exact definition.

Well?

We've already had this discussion many times in the past, so I'm not willing to play, grumbler.  Oddly enough though, Marti's post right before yours has some detail.

I wasn't very clear, the question was aimed at Mart. Not you.

[The Brain]

If you're using a word in a completely different way than normal it's good to define it. For clarity.

[grumbler]

I wasn't very clear, the question was aimed at Mart. Not you.

Good luck with that, grumbler! 

[grumbler]

You said that you want children to learn specifics over overarching themes. My contention is that overarching themes will actually stick with children better than specific details.  Sure, I knew all the state capitals in 5th grade - hell if I know those now.  Sure I knew precise dates for various events in WWI in 8th grade - not really sure about them now but I can still tell you broad themes/events about the conflict.

You have the right of it.  Facts not taught in conjunction with themes/stories are not retained, but themes and stories have to have some facts supporting them or they won't be retained.

Example:  I could teach that Mohandas Gandhi played on Hindu values in his independence campaign as a theme, but without any examples it won't stick.  I could also teach that the Chauri Chara incident involved mob violence against some Indian policemen, but that name won't stick, either.  If I teach that Gandhi responded to the Chauri Chara incident by fasting until the people abandoned the non-cooperation movement, exploiting the fact that Hindus believed that indirect consequences for their actions still created karma and delayed their spiritual advancement, students tend to remember the incident, why Gandhi responded as he did, and why his response worked.

Facts and frameworks reinforce one another, and aren't much use independently, at least for pre-college students.

[garbon]

If you're using a word in a completely different way than normal it's good to define it. For clarity.

If this was the first time we discussed this, then sure, I could understand if this use of the word was foreign.  After the umpteenth time, no thanks.