Tabloid phone hacking scandal involving kidnapped girl roils Britain

[jimmy olsen]

Someone on CNN has called it "UK Watergate".

This watergate fetishism is getting ridiculous, next time there's a big scandal I'm going to name it the ________dome scandal. That'll make just as much sense. 

[Martinus]

Oops. It's bad when your lawyers turn on you:

The law firm hired by News International in 2007 to review allegations of phone hacking says it is being prevented from responding to "inaccurate" comments made by James Murdoch. Mr Murdoch said a letter written by the law firm made executives at News International believe that hacking was a "matter of the past". Harbottle and Lewis says it is not being allowed to breach client confidentiality.

[Martinus]

And Australia now joins the fray:

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the Australian arm of News Corp will have to answer "hard questions"

[The Minsky Moment]

I thought we were talking about principles, not specifics of the US federal law (which, in addition to the fact that many participants in the discussion are not familiar with it, is not really an object of this thread at all since the whole thing happened in the UK).

We are talking about legal gray areas.  That by nature involves specific laws, not principles. 

Ifyou want to talk about UK law, go ahead and talk about UK law.  The invasion of privacy laws are stricter there than in the US - a fact that came out during the Mosely thread.  But again, it is by no means clear to me there are significant gray areas there - other than the potential ambiguity that may result from the possibility of appealing to Strasbourg

[The Minsky Moment]

"Newsworthy" is something else than "in public interest", especially in the scandal/celebrity culture we live in. I'm rather glad the simple fact that something is "newsworthy" is not enough in most EU countries.

Many people are hostile to the concept of freedom of speech, and to a certain extent, the legal frameworks in many European countries (UK notably among them) reflect that hostility.  What is interesting, and yet also predictable, is that stricter regulation of what the press can say has tended to make the press less responsible, not more.  When you allow the State to define what is news ("in the public interest") and what is not, you not only make a mockery of freedom of the press and speech, you relieve that particular buck from stopping at the doors of the editors.  As horrible and obnoxious as the US media often gets, it rarely reaches the depth of the Brit tabloids, or the likes of Bild.  No accident that, IMO

[Neil]

Someone on CNN has called it "UK Watergate". Not sure if this is not an exaggeration but will see. For now it is pretty to watch.

Which only goes to show the low intelligence of UK journalists.

Present company excepted, of course.

[Martinus]

Someone on CNN has called it "UK Watergate". Not sure if this is not an exaggeration but will see. For now it is pretty to watch.

Which only goes to show the low intelligence of UK journalists.

Present company excepted, of course.

Is CNN run by UK journalists?

[Admiral Yi]

I didn't realize Rupert's chinaman girl wife had such high principles.

She befriends an American couple in China, who teach her English and sponsor her for a student visa.  She bangs the husband and marries him after he gets a divorce.  She stays married long enough to get a green card, then bangs another dude and divorces the first sap.  Gets an MBA at Yale, starts working at News Corp., and ditches the second sap to marry Rupert.

[Ed Anger]

I didn't realize Rupert's chinaman girl wife had such high principles.

She befriends an American couple in China, who teach her English and sponsor her for a student visa.  She bangs the husband and marries him after he gets a divorce.  She stays married long enough to get a green card, then bangs another dude and divorces the first sap.  Gets an MBA at Yale, starts working at News Corp., and ditches the second sap to marry Rupert.

That is the American way.

[Admiral Yi]

I just hope that our own little Yakie doesn't get hurt. 

[grumbler]

Is CNN run by UK journalists?

It has UK journalists.  The moron who posted the first new about CNN reporting just said that it was "Someone on CNN."  Kinda stupid to just say "someone," but it could easily have been "someone" from the UK. 

[Jacob]

I just hope that our own little Yakie doesn't get hurt. 

Thank you for your concern

[Gups]

Many people are hostile to the concept of freedom of speech, and to a certain extent, the legal frameworks in many European countries (UK notably among them) reflect that hostility.  What is interesting, and yet also predictable, is that stricter regulation of what the press can say has tended to make the press less responsible, not more.  When you allow the State to define what is news ("in the public interest") and what is not, you not only make a mockery of freedom of the press and speech, you relieve that particular buck from stopping at the doors of the editors.  As horrible and obnoxious as the US media often gets, it rarely reaches the depth of the Brit tabloids, or the likes of Bild.  No accident that, IMO

Certainly no accident. But IMO the market rather than the law. American papers by and large are local monopolies, European papers are not.

The common law on privacy is a developing field. There is no legislation as such save that the European Convention on Human Rights provides certain rights which can be interpreted as giving a right to privacy. These rights have been interpreted in an arguably too strong manner by high court judges in the UK but I would argue that is because of the excesses of the tabloids rather than the other way round. If the right to privacy is the cause of tabloid excesses (which is so counter-intuitive an argument  it should require a strong evidential base) then why do we not see such excesses elsewhere in Europe?

[CountDeMoney]

I didn't realize Rupert's chinaman girl wife had such high principles.

She befriends an American couple in China, who teach her English and sponsor her for a student visa.  She bangs the husband and marries him after he gets a divorce.  She stays married long enough to get a green card, then bangs another dude and divorces the first sap.  Gets an MBA at Yale, starts working at News Corp., and ditches the second sap to marry Rupert.

Sounds just like any other manipulative, sinister Asian chick.

[The Minsky Moment]

These rights have been interpreted in an arguably too strong manner by high court judges in the UK but I would argue that is because of the excesses of the tabloids rather than the other way round. If the right to privacy is the cause of tabloid excesses (which is so counter-intuitive an argument  it should require a strong evidential base) then why do we not see such excesses elsewhere in Europe?

Who said we don't?  I mentioned Bild in my post -- they are certainly the "equal" the British tabloids in terms of irresponsibility and least common denomimator reporting.  While I am not familiar with the European press in other countries due to lack of exposure, I would not accept the proposition that similar problems do not exist in the absence of any proof.  One exception  is France, where the level of de facto political control over the press is so deep that it operates as a prior restraint.

I don't think the argument is as counter-intuitive as you suggest - one sees this dynamic elsewhere.  Strict drug laws don't destroy the drug trade; they just make it more dangerous.   What happened at NOTW is illustrative.  In the face of strong privacy rule that threatened the tabloid's competitive position, reporters ratcheted their intrusive behavior up rather than down.  Intrusive tactics were hidden from view by the use of intermediaries to do dirty work and wink-wink, nod-nod between line reporters and immediate supervisors.  Meanwhile at the editorial and corporate levels, managers simultaneously put intense pressure on reporters to deliver juicy scoops, while choosing to remain in deliberate ignorance about the methods used to get those results.  But once this kind of activity gets pushed into the margins, it becomes entirely uncontrolled, and the worst abuses become possible.  Perhaps even probable.