Russians angry over Romanian president's justification of 1941 invasion

Started by Syt, June 30, 2011, 01:15:54 PM

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Razgovory

#15
June 30, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on June 30, 2011, 03:09:26 PM

What opponents?  Poland?  Blame that one on the Poles, who refused any defensive pact with the Soviets that would allow Soviet forces to move into Poland and actually, you know, fight Nazis.  (See also, Baltic states.)  Not that I don't understand Poland's position, and maybe I'd have been a dick like Jozef Beck too.  (Except for the part about him taking German bribes.  I looked him up just now basically to recall his name--but that's new.  That wasn't information available when I was doing my thesis on the M-R Pact back in 2006.)

The Poles knew that if the Russians moved troops through Poland they probably would have stayed.  Poland was also pretty much screwed.
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Caliga

#16
June 30, 2011, 03:14:59 PM
Anyway, with regard to the OP: is there ever any time when Russians aren't angry? :hmm:
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HVC

#17
June 30, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 30, 2011, 03:14:59 PM
Anyway, with regard to the OP: is there ever any time when Russians aren't angry? :hmm:
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Valmy

#18
June 30, 2011, 03:25:45 PM Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 03:27:40 PM by Valmy
Quote from: Ideologue on June 30, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
What opponents?  Poland?  Blame that one on the Poles, who refused any defensive pact with the Soviets that would allow Soviet forces to move into Poland and actually, you know, fight Nazis.  (See also, Baltic states.)  Not that I don't understand Poland's position, and maybe I'd have been a dick like Jozef Beck too.  (Except for the part about him taking German bribes.  I looked him up just now basically to recall his name--but that's new.  That wasn't information available when I was doing my thesis on the M-R Pact back in 2006.)

Romania, Yugoslavia, Greece, and so forth.  All the countries interested in the status territorial quo.  The Soviets either attacked them themselves or gave the Germans their blessing to destroy them.  And I am totally sure the Finns would have joined the Germans if Stalin had not attacked them...because you know preparing to fight Nazis is a perfectly logical time to take care of border disputes.  Yeah totally the motherfucking Poles fault.
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The Brain

#19
June 30, 2011, 03:28:51 PM
Russians are always in the wrong.
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The Brain

#20
June 30, 2011, 03:30:31 PM
I think Ide's naive American soft spot for the Soviet Union and Communism in general is pretty cute. Keep it up.
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Sahib

#21
June 30, 2011, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on June 30, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
(Except for the part about him taking German bribes.  I looked him up just now basically to recall his name--but that's new.  That wasn't information available when I was doing my thesis on the M-R Pact back in 2006.)

Never heard of it. Link?
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grumbler

#22
June 30, 2011, 03:58:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on June 30, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
I'm a lot less knowledgeable about the Romanian invasion than events further north.  Was it more possible to have a working alliance with the Romanians than with the Poles or Balts?  Or even keep them neutral?
I don't think the Soviets could have gotten the Rumanians to declare war on Germany, but with tacit Soviet backing the government might have survived rather than being overthrown by Ion Antonescu.  The Soviets were too busy sucking Nazi cock to recognize their opportunity, though, and it might not have worked.  What is sure is that Soviet toadying to the Nazis killed any chance that Rumania wouldn't see the Nazis as better allies than the Soviets.
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grumbler

#23
June 30, 2011, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: Sahib on June 30, 2011, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on June 30, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
(Except for the part about him taking German bribes.  I looked him up just now basically to recall his name--but that's new.  That wasn't information available when I was doing my thesis on the M-R Pact back in 2006.)

Never heard of it. Link?
Its from a Russian history source, the History Foundation (http://historyfoundation.ru/ru/news_item.php?id=2114) via "Red Ant Liberation Army News" (http://redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/polish-minister-of-foreign-affairs-jozef-beck-was-recruited-by-the-nazis-in-1938/).  The spin placed on it by the Russian "historian" in this piece makes me suspicious, but if the original transcripts are real and translate this way, I certainly could believe it.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

DGuller

#24
June 30, 2011, 04:24:27 PM
Actually, Russian historians tend to be the best in the field.  Russian history is a very dynamic field, whereas for example American history tends to be very stale.

The Brain

#25
June 30, 2011, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:24:27 PM
Russian history is a very dynamic field,

^_^
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derspiess

#26
June 30, 2011, 05:21:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
The Poles knew that if the Russians moved troops through Poland they probably would have stayed.  Poland was also pretty much screwed.

They effectively would have been annexed the minute Soviet troops stepped foot in Poland.  That's how Uncle Joe rolled.
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Martinus

#27
June 30, 2011, 05:26:14 PM
Did I miss Ide becoming a Stalin apologist or is it a new thing?

citizen k

#29
June 30, 2011, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 30, 2011, 05:26:14 PM
Did I miss Ide becoming a Stalin apologist or is it a new thing?

It got worse after he went to law school.

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