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When do you raise taxes?

Started by Razgovory, June 28, 2011, 12:29:09 PM

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DGuller

You should raise taxes when you have huge deficits, to increase revenues.  You should also raise taxes when you have huge surpluses, to reduce revenues.

Grey Fox

Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2011, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 28, 2011, 12:36:08 PM
Right now would be really good for you Yanks. Especially in the 1mil + bracket.

So long as it is packaged with a series of comprehensive cuts.

I don't think that's possible in America anymore.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Admiral Yi

Last December would have been a good time.

Razgovory

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 28, 2011, 01:41:58 PM

I don't think that's possible in America anymore.

You pretty much can't raise taxes in the US anymore.  The anti-tax cult is very strong.  In Missouri the legislature can't raise any tax.  All taxes have to be voted on by the people.  At the same time, every election the GOP promises tax cuts to appease the masses.  Missouri also can't legally run a deficit, so you get things like half of the schools in Kansas City have been closed, or some school districts have only a four day school week.  Or the State has had a policy of "no growth" for prisons.  Every time one person is put in, another has to be let out.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
You pretty much can't raise taxes in the US anymore.  The anti-tax cult is very strong.

Yes, that and the federal treasury is where we need the money, but new types of taxes besides the income taxes and tariffs need an amendment. Maybe we should try apportionment?  :P
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Camerus

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 28, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
Ideally never, except for emergency measures which are temporary("war taxes"). Other than that they should be at a pretty set rate which covers the government's expenses. Using tax policy to try to prod the economy seems to be more trouble than its worth.  :hmm:

Or when your country has been horribly financially mismanaged and desperately needs some way to reduce its deficit.

garbon

Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
You pretty much can't raise taxes in the US anymore.  The anti-tax cult is very strong. 

Not surprising. Things don't seem to be getting any better, so why wouldn't I want to pay the government more for the same old shit?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

DontSayBanana

Under the current system?  Might as well not even bother.  Spending allocation is so broken that a tax hike is going to have miniscule or no positive domestic effect.  Even without uber-spending, though, my personal belief is that taxes should never be brought up without real income on the upswing to avoid gouging the people who are supposed to be receiving the benefits of their own government.
Experience bij!

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on June 28, 2011, 05:20:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 28, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
Ideally never, except for emergency measures which are temporary("war taxes"). Other than that they should be at a pretty set rate which covers the government's expenses. Using tax policy to try to prod the economy seems to be more trouble than its worth.  :hmm:

Or when your country has been horribly financially mismanaged and desperately needs some way to reduce its deficit.

Bingo.  After ten years of eliminated revenue streams and cokehead spending binges is a good time to raise taxes.

Habbaku

Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
Or the State has had a policy of "no growth" for prisons.  Every time one person is put in, another has to be let out.

Sounds good.  One thief in, one pothead out.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Razgovory

Quote from: Habbaku on June 28, 2011, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
Or the State has had a policy of "no growth" for prisons.  Every time one person is put in, another has to be let out.

Sounds good.  One thief in, one pothead out.

Or the other way around.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 28, 2011, 05:17:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
You pretty much can't raise taxes in the US anymore.  The anti-tax cult is very strong.

Yes, that and the federal treasury is where we need the money, but new types of taxes besides the income taxes and tariffs need an amendment. Maybe we should try apportionment?  :P

The current system seemed to work in the 1990's.  We raised taxes and by the end of the decade the US was running a surplus.  Curiously the economy was doing quite well too!
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Habbaku

Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 06:43:14 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 28, 2011, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 05:06:21 PM
Or the State has had a policy of "no growth" for prisons.  Every time one person is put in, another has to be let out.

Sounds good.  One thief in, one pothead out.

Or the other way around.

That seems less good.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 06:47:33 PM
The current system seemed to work in the 1990's.  We raised taxes and by the end of the decade the US was running a surplus.  Curiously the economy was doing quite well too!

As I've said before, to return to that Golden Age we need to engineer another stock market bubble so we can collect tons of capital gains taxes.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2011, 06:58:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2011, 06:47:33 PM
The current system seemed to work in the 1990's.  We raised taxes and by the end of the decade the US was running a surplus.  Curiously the economy was doing quite well too!

As I've said before, to return to that Golden Age we need to engineer another stock market bubble so we can collect tons of capital gains taxes.

Why was the bubble that occurred in the 1990's also see increase in wages while the one in the Bush administration see a decrease in wages?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017