The American Civil War

[Admiral Yi]

There was a also a perceived need in the North to appoint politicians with no military experiece to high command.

Another way to look at it is individuals capable of commanding an army were extremely rare in both North and South, and the South lucked out with 3 at the beginning of the war.

[Sophie Scholl]

There was a also a perceived need in the North to appoint politicians with no military experience to high command.

Another way to look at it is individuals capable of commanding an army were extremely rare in both North and South, and the South lucked out with 3 at the beginning of the war.

The South had political appointments as well.  A lot ended up in the West as opposed to the North whose political generals ended up in the "glory" theater of the East.  Also, the South managed to keep their political hack generals generally lower in rank or commanding behind the scenes.

[Admiral Yi]

The South had political appointments as well.  A lot ended up in the West as opposed to the North whose political generals ended up in the "glory" theater of the East.  Also, the South managed to keep their political hack generals generally lower in rank or commanding behind the scenes.

The South's political hacks also performed better on average in the field.

[Razgovory]

I'd argue that Phil Kearny* was as good and creative a general as the war saw, and he didn't serve in the West during the ACW.  I think Western generals looked better because they had smaller forces, more maneuvering room, and fewer foes at the start, and so faced a less daunting learning curve.


*Incidentally, a man well worth researching.  He invented the first divisional patch, the "Big Red One," and uniquely (as far as I know) had not one, but two forts named after him; Fort Kearney, and Fort Phil Kearney.

That's the dude that served over in France too. Some think he would have been a better choice the Little Mac.

Yeah, but he died before something like that could happen.

[Viking]

The souths political generals were disasters, all of them, Breckenridge, Floyd, Pillow etc. Butler and Banks are examples of Union political generals that, while not very competent, they did perform sufficiently from time to time.

The union did solve the "problem" with political generals by promoting them out of fighting. Butler and Banks were both promoted to Reconstruction jobs away from commanding troops.

[Tonitrus]

I doubt the ladies of New Orleans approved of Butler's reconstruction. 

And, this might be the only Languish thread immune to an ACW hijack.

[Admiral Yi]

The souths political generals were disasters, all of them, Breckenridge, Floyd, Pillow etc.

How was Breckenridge a disaster?  And you can't really call Price a disaster either.  He was decent.

I don't even know who Floyd and Pillow were. 

[Razgovory]

I thought Price had been a military officer before the war.

[dps]

I thought Price had been a military officer before the war.

I think he served in the Mexican-American War, but wasn't regular Army.

[CountDeMoney]

There was a also a perceived need in the North to appoint politicians with no military experiece to high command.

Yeah, and there was so much more political pressure in Congress and in abolitionist circles, who tolerated failure on the battlefield by a general, as long as "he was right on the Negro question".  John C. Fremont was no strategist, but he proclaimed slaves free in his areas. Ben Butler fucked up hardcore at Fort Fisher, but was an abolitionist, McDowell passed the Negro tests even after Bull Run.  Rosecrans was an abolitionist darling to the extent of being considered a presidential candidate even after Chickamauga.  Burnside was heavily defended by them after Fredericksburg, as was Hooker after Chancellorsville, when they adopted open anti-slavery positions when they saw it could save their asses.

Serious hero-worship on officers with failures under their belts, but they scored correctly on political points for the radicals.

[Razgovory]

What I want to know is why so many Union generals had fucked up eyes.  Butler, Meade, Doubleday, Slocum... They all have these deep set eyes with heavy bags underneath.

[Viking]

The souths political generals were disasters, all of them, Breckenridge, Floyd, Pillow etc.

How was Breckenridge a disaster?  And you can't really call Price a disaster either.  He was decent.

I don't even know who Floyd and Pillow were. 

Floyd and Pillow were in command at Ft Donelson. They ordered a break out, which succeeded, but then they ordered the troops back into the fort, just in time for most of them to surrender to Grant. Both skidaddled before surrendering, each in turn relinquishing command to a lower commander before escaping across the Tennessee river.

Calling Brekenridge a disaster might have been exaggeration on my part. But, he did do his damndest to make sure Braxton Bragg failed.

[Kleves]

*Incidentally, a man well worth researching.

The first soldier through the gate in Mexico City, and one of only two guys with an equestrian statute at Arlington National Cemetery. Dude also apparently fought in the French Imperial Guard and won the Legion of Honor. Too bad it turned out the rebels had made a bullet that could kill him. 

[Razgovory]

Calling Brekenridge a disaster might have been exaggeration on my part. But, he did do his damndest to make sure Braxton Bragg failed.

That's wasn't to hard.  Bragg wasn't a very good commander and he was hated by almost everyone he had contact with.  I'm actually surprised he wasn't shot in a duel or something.

[jimmy olsen]

Calling Brekenridge a disaster might have been exaggeration on my part. But, he did do his damndest to make sure Braxton Bragg failed.

That's wasn't to hard.  Bragg wasn't a very good commander and he was hated by almost everyone he had contact with.  I'm actually surprised he wasn't shot in a duel or something.

It be hard to get away with that in the middle of a war. Not many would be willing to risk being shoot by firing squad.