Are there situations when tortures are justifiable?

Started by Martinus, June 16, 2011, 04:18:36 AM

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Are there situations when tortures are justifiable?

Yes
17 (54.8%)
No
14 (45.2%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Martinus

Article 1 of Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment*:

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

*Ratified by the US, Canada and all EU member states.

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Slargos

Well that is a stupid question [and not only because of the spelling]. Yes, obviously.



Viking

First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Martinus

Quote from: Viking on June 16, 2011, 04:56:14 AM
Is this a question of morality or law?

Morality, of course. If it was a question of law, why would I make a poll?

Slargos

And whoever voted no, what kind of murderous cretins are you?

Probably the same kind of idiots who think that "violence is never justified".

The Brain

Quote from: Slargos on June 16, 2011, 07:05:16 AM
"violence is never justified".

I wonder what the city fathers of Detroit would say about that.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Zanza

No, it's never justified. States and public officials should operate under deontological ethics, not utilitarian considerations.

Berkut

"any" and "never". It is a bit trivial to refute an absolute.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Monoriu

Depends on how torture is defined.  The definition in the opening post is not specific enough to make this judgement. 

Valmy

Quote from: Monoriu on June 16, 2011, 08:37:14 AM
Depends on how torture is defined.  The definition in the opening post is not specific enough to make this judgement. 

Forcing somebody to read one of those 40 page threads where somebody argues with grumbler.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Razgovory

Quote from: Berkut on June 16, 2011, 08:24:43 AM
"any" and "never". It is a bit trivial to refute an absolute.

Yeah.  I don't care for torture, but I can see times when it's justified.  For instance, if the prisoner is Marty.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Berkut

Quote from: Monoriu on June 16, 2011, 08:37:14 AM
Depends on how torture is defined.  The definition in the opening post is not specific enough to make this judgement. 

Doesn't matter how you define it, I can come up with a theoretical scenario where it is morally justified as long as you couch the discussion in terms like "is it EVER...".

Person A has a knowledge of a device that when detonated is going to crack the crust of the earth wiping out all life. It is going to go off in 1 hour. I have a remote control for said device that can shut it off, but I need the access code. My remote lets me know if the device has been successfully de-activated or not.

I have the person here in the room with me, with a variety of torture devices, however you want to define torture. The person will not tell me the code, because he wants to destroy all life on the earth due to being a little deranged, but we know he doesn't handle pain well.

So...the options in my hypothetical are

1. Do not torture them, resulting in the deaths of all life on Earth, including the person in question, or
2. Torture him, in which case we know he will break and tell us how to turn it off, saving everyone's life on earth, including his own.

The issue of torture is not interesting when you speak of "ever" "any" or "never". The issue of torture, "enhanced interrogation techniques", etc., etc., is interesting when you have to consider question like the spectrum of interrogation, when does pressure become torture, and under what circumstances is driving up the pressure justified?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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