Late Republican Rome

[grumbler]

You are probably overstating your case a bit.  The Byzantines didn't really loose much of this.  Neither did the Arabs.  Again, I think the peculiarly dramatic decline of the West had a lot more to do with it's dependence on the East in the Roman period.  The Renaissance was made possible in part by the fact that the West finally *did* have access to centers of learning and wealth in the East, in the form of cultural and economic contact with the Islamic world and the mass exodus of Byzantines. 

I think you are engaging in a bit of post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning, here.  The secular knowledge of the Roman Empire was not preserved because it had little or no utility to a church based on mysteries and miracles, and where the church became the only reservoir of knowledge it jettisoned that which was secular as being either useless or actively harmful.  The Renaissance was spurred in part by the influx of Byzantine refugees, for sure, but also by the collapse of the church as the central organizing agent of Western civilization.  That's my take.

Not that my speculation is really any better-founded than yours, of course.   

[Razgovory]

If Raz has read Euthyphro he is going to stay well clear of that question.

That is if he read it and understood it.

Perhaps.  I don't understand his concept myself (hence the question), but it scarcely seems possible that Raz can steer clear of, or misunderstand, his own concept! 

You are the perfect Socrates to Raz's Euthyphro.  Just replace piety with seriousness and all it works quite well right down the Raz's certainty that he knows exactly what he is talking about and your inquiry to learn that what it is he thinks he knows.

Not sure what made me think of it but the structure of your questions to Raz reminded me of that particular dialogue.

Yes, but what does this have to do with Operation Compass?

[crazy canuck]

Yes, but what does this have to do with Operation Compass?

So you are saying you are as wrong about this as I was about that?

[Razgovory]

I'm surprised you admit you were wrong!  At the time you always couched it with the word "If".

[crazy canuck]

I'm surprised you admit you were wrong!  At the time you always couched it with the word "If".

If you had been paying attention I told Grumbler I was wrong about that a long time ago.

[Razgovory]

That's nice.

[crazy canuck]

No that I have set a good example, you just need to follow it.

[Razgovory]

No that I have set a good example, you just need to follow it.

I will No that.

[garbon]

No that I have set a good example, you just need to follow it.

I will No that.

I will no it too!