So we hit the debt limit...

[Razgovory]

We mentioned you are asshole because you are being an assshole, like accusing Iormlund of being a liar.  You viciously lash out then project that back at everyone else.

[Berkut]

We mentioned you are asshole because you are being an assshole, like accusing Iormlund of being a liar.  You viciously lash out then project that back at everyone else.

How uprising that you concern about other "viciousness" does not apply to anyone in your tribes accusations that others are lying.

As far as Iorm though, if you don't want to be labeled a liar, don't state things that are simply not true. At the very least, throw in a "I think I remember..." or something to give you an out. I never made the claims he stated outright that I made. Again, it seems odd that me pointing out that someone claimed I said something I did not is "vicious", yet you make the original claim (which you knew was as false as I did, of course, what with your excellent memory and all) pass without comment. I guess this is rather illustrative of the point about partisan loyalty and lack of objective thinking.

[DGuller]

The Tea Party position of a kind of totally needless shock terapy is retarded and borders on treason (in terms of how they attempt to held the country at hostage without compromise),

  You are a wise man.

[DGuller]

It seems like the default is averted.  Yi, how do you want your $5 to be sent?

[Razgovory]

We mentioned you are asshole because you are being an assshole, like accusing Iormlund of being a liar.  You viciously lash out then project that back at everyone else.

How uprising that you concern about other "viciousness" does not apply to anyone in your tribes accusations that others are lying.

As far as Iorm though, if you don't want to be labeled a liar, don't state things that are simply not true. At the very least, throw in a "I think I remember..." or something to give you an out. I never made the claims he stated outright that I made. Again, it seems odd that me pointing out that someone claimed I said something I did not is "vicious", yet you make the original claim (which you knew was as false as I did, of course, what with your excellent memory and all) pass without comment. I guess this is rather illustrative of the point about partisan loyalty and lack of objective thinking.

You're projecting again.  The only one thinking about tribes is you.

Iorm statement is difficult to prove correct or incorrect.  He said that you did support the war (which is true as far as I know), and that certain arguments were made (which may or may not be true, but is almost impossible to conclude is incorrect.  In all likely hood, someone somewhere made that argument).  He did not say you made that argument.

[Neil]

It never rose to crisis levels.

Because the Democrats were smart.  If they had cut the purse strings, the Republicans would have had a 'This death brought to you by Barrack Obama and the Democratic Party' sign at every military funeral from then until the election.  Palin would be vice-president right now, for heaven's sake.

I don't like many Democrats that aren't Andrew Jackson or Harry Truman, but you have to admit that whoever makes their decisions for them isn't stupid.

[Berkut]

We mentioned you are asshole because you are being an assshole, like accusing Iormlund of being a liar.  You viciously lash out then project that back at everyone else.

How uprising that you concern about other "viciousness" does not apply to anyone in your tribes accusations that others are lying.

As far as Iorm though, if you don't want to be labeled a liar, don't state things that are simply not true. At the very least, throw in a "I think I remember..." or something to give you an out. I never made the claims he stated outright that I made. Again, it seems odd that me pointing out that someone claimed I said something I did not is "vicious", yet you make the original claim (which you knew was as false as I did, of course, what with your excellent memory and all) pass without comment. I guess this is rather illustrative of the point about partisan loyalty and lack of objective thinking.

You're projecting again.  The only one thinking about tribes is you.

I know, tribe members rarely think about it in those terms, that is the nature of tribalism. Pretty obvious to those of us not in the tribe though. Your uncritical acceptance of DG calling people liars while calling non-tribe members assholes, for example, is not exactly subtle to those not wearing the purple headband.

Iorm statement is difficult to prove correct or incorrect. 

Not to me. I know I never made any such claim, so it is rather easy for me to state unequivocally that I did not say any such thing.

If you are saying that Iorm thinks I made that claim, but was wrong - then ok, I would withdraw my accusation of him lying about it - if he actually said something like that. For the moment, I am going to assume he knows what he said until he states otherwise. At the least, he made a pretty obvious effort to slander my position with something that was simply not true.

He said that you did support the war (which is true as far as I know), and that certain arguments were made (which may or may not be true, but is almost impossible to conclude is incorrect.  In all likely hood, someone somewhere made that argument).  He did not say you made that argument.

Then he should not have brought me up in his post, if I had nothing to do with the argument. Of course, he is part of your little tribe, so ou make excuses for him while accusing those not in your partisan group of being assholes, which is more to the point.

Or rather, the better point is...why am I arguing with Raz again?

[Berkut]

The Tea Party position of a kind of totally needless shock terapy is retarded and borders on treason (in terms of how they attempt to held the country at hostage without compromise),

  You are a wise man.

I don't think I would call it treason of course - they did what they did because they think it was the right thing to do, not because they hate America, but the basic sentiment is valid.

[Berkut]

Man, if this deal is really no revenue increases at all, that is going to suck. And not only because there aren't any revenue increases, but because it is going to empower the nutbar wing of the Republican party that much more.

[Tamas]

The Tea Party position of a kind of totally needless shock terapy is retarded and borders on treason (in terms of how they attempt to held the country at hostage without compromise),

  You are a wise man.

I don't think I would call it treason of course - they did what they did because they think it was the right thing to do, not because they hate America, but the basic sentiment is valid.

Heh, contrary to fairy tales, it is extremely rare that people do something because they think it is evil. Usually, evil is done because the perpetrators think it is the right thing.

[The Minsky Moment]

Man, if this deal is really no revenue increases at all, that is going to suck. And not only because there aren't any revenue increases, but because it is going to empower the nutbar wing of the Republican party that much more.

The test is going to be what happens when the old Bush cuts sunset at the end of next year. 

Fundamental tax reform would be ideal but it is not going to happen pre-Nov 2012.  The last reform required a lot of cross-aisle cooperation.  The best scenario to make it happen would be Obama being a re-elected and small GOP majorities in the House and Senate, which would mirror (in reverse) the situation c. 1986, but a pre-requisite would be a reduction in the size of the blocking nutbar bloc.

[Berkut]

Man, if this deal is really no revenue increases at all, that is going to suck. And not only because there aren't any revenue increases, but because it is going to empower the nutbar wing of the Republican party that much more.

The test is going to be what happens when the old Bush cuts sunset at the end of next year. 

Fundamental tax reform would be ideal but it is not going to happen pre-Nov 2012.  The last reform required a lot of cross-aisle cooperation.  The best scenario to make it happen would be Obama being a re-elected and small GOP majorities in the House and Senate, which would mirror (in reverse) the situation c. 1986, but a pre-requisite would be a reduction in the size of the blocking nutbar bloc.

I think you are right. The deal as it stands actually has some potential to harm the nutbar wing. Hawk that I am, I would like to see them get stuck with figuring out how to cut a trillion and change from the defense departments budget.

[Tamas]

So it appears that after a few hours of optimism, panis ensued, and the euro and the dollar is dropped in favour of the CHF.

Which sucks big time because the citizens of my country happen to be in major private debts in that particular currency.

[garbon]

Heh, contrary to fairy tales, it is extremely rare that people do something because they think it is evil. Usually, evil is done because the perpetrators think it is the right thing.

Do you need a lesson in what treason means?

[Tamas]

Heh, contrary to fairy tales, it is extremely rare that people do something because they think it is evil. Usually, evil is done because the perpetrators think it is the right thing.

Do you need a lesson in what treason means?

Not sure you are the right guy for that. I mean, a black gay joining a party harboring the tea baggers? Epic.