So we hit the debt limit...

[Berkut]

Related question: DG, do you really think the solution to the widening wealth gap is simply to have the state sieze the wealth of the wealthy in an effort to redress it? Do you really think that would be a sane use of the power of the state? Do you really think the state could practically do something useful with that wealth that would actually solve the systemic problem that created the gap without demolishing the economy in the process?

[Berkut]

What do you mean "absent any political action"? Maintaining the status quo is one hell of a political action.

But that isn't what DG said. He simply said that making more money in and of itself is class warfare. He didn't say anything about maintaining anything. Under his definition of class warfare, YOU are engaged in it despite your political desire to close the gap even at your own expense. Simply making more than others is his definition of class warfare justifying the not wealthy to take extreme ("warfare") action to redress that imbalance.

And what do you mean showing up for work?

I mean that DG has defined making more money than that not wealthy as class warfare in and of itself, and hence justifying a warfare response.

I think one of the most outlandish, amazing thing the America's rich have done (which proves more successful that Goebbel's propaganda) is convincing the America's middle class that they have similar lifestyles and ethics.

I don't think they've done that at all, actually. But I am not surprised you accept the nutbar lefts view of America even though you've never been here and have shown time and again you have incredibly screwed up views of what the country is like.

[grumbler]

But the idea that simply showing up for work in the morning is such a heinous act that it justifies the level of animosity shown by Seedy and the like, to include using the power of the state to harm you irrespective of its utility is rather disturbing.

Is anyone arguing tat "simply showing up for work" is somehow "such a heinous act?"  I think your hyperbole got way out of control on that one.

I think, in fact, that you and DG are not far apart in your arguments; you seem to be disagreeing over trifles.

[grumbler]

But I am not surprised you accept the nutbar lefts view of America even though you've never been here and have shown time and again you have incredibly screwed up views of what the country is like.

Marti is an expert on anything he decides to be an expert on.  Didn't you know?  It comes with moving in the same circles as the "movers and shakers" of the world.




And then he wakes up, and his pillow is gone!

[CountDeMoney]

Seedy, Dems like you would be a lot easier to stomach of you just liked high taxes in general.

But sadly, it isn't that you are in favor of higher taxes to support greater spending for (and on) everyone, you are in favor of high taxes mainly for the purpose of engaging in class warfare.

It is interesting that your standard for what would clearly be something worthy of concern when it comes to excessive taxes necessitates driving people into poverty. Short of that, any tax increase is a good tax increase, amirite?

I live in the 4th highest taxes in the Union.  I'm in the Federal 28% tax bracket now.  Next year, I will be paying out taxes like a motherfucker for the first time in my life.  Taxes don't hurt me, make a noticable impact on my daily life in the American consumer-based economy or impede my life in any way.  So share with the class how your taxes are destroying your life.  They obviously do, or else you wouldn't be such a whiny bitch about them.  Explain to us how, Berkut, if your tax rate jumped from 28% to 31% you won't be able to buy groceries.

I would be in favor of higher taxes for everyone, if everyone were subject to higher taxes.  But they're not.  Corporations aren't.  Wall Street and the 1% that for some reason you feel slavishly devoted to don't.

But if you think Corporate America(tm), the 1%, Wall Street and their Citizens United-purchased minions on the Hill aren't engaging in class warfare every fucking day, then you're dumber than you write.

Go ahead, keep supporting people who would hate you if they knew you.  Try getting into their country clubs with your voter registration card.  Sucker.

[DGuller]

Ahhh, so now simply the act of making money absent ANY political action of any kind, is defined as "class warfare". Nice.

How is it "absent any political action"?  There were plenty of political actions that brought down the marginal tax rate tremendously for the super-rich, in various ways.  They were mostly in the past, since they were highly successful, but I wouldn't classify successfully completed political actions as absence of political actions.

[DGuller]

Related question: DG, do you really think the solution to the widening wealth gap is simply to have the state sieze the wealth of the wealthy in an effort to redress it? Do you really think that would be a sane use of the power of the state? Do you really think the state could practically do something useful with that wealth that would actually solve the systemic problem that created the gap without demolishing the economy in the process?

I'm guessing that the liberal use of "really" makes this a loaded questions, but I'll answer anyway.  Yes, I do think that the state could do a lot of useful things by increasing taxes on the wealth, like for example creating a progressive tax code to replace the code that progressive up to a point, and then highly regressive.  I consider this crazy tax code to be the main systemic problem that causes ever-increasing concentration of wealth, so I do think that a change in tax code would solve the main systemic problem. 

I also do not think that economy would be demolished, I think that's a naked scare tactic by the right that convinced half of America to just let the wealthy skirt their taxes.  Western Europe is not exactly the economic black hole it is made out to be, and you can make an argument that their quality of life is higher (which is ultimately the end goal of the economy, you would think).

[DGuller]

But that isn't what DG said. He simply said that making more money in and of itself is class warfare.

Woah, woah, who the fuck is that DG idiot?   

[Grallon]

..I'm in the Federal 28% tax bracket now. ...

  I'm at 39% - and I'm quite behind you in terms of revenues.  You people have it easy. 




G.

[Grey Fox]

They sure do.

*hugs his RQAP cheque*

[Razgovory]

First of all, it's not only Democrats that are engaged in "class warfare".  The fact that the very rich pay much less in taxes as percentage of income than upper middle class can be viewed as class warfare as well.  Well, not really warfare, rather the spoils of a war already won by one of the classes.

And there is also a practical consideration, even if it may sound a little Socialist.  Ever-increasing wealth concentration is a very bad thing for democracy.  It's an unstable situation.  Yes, you may view that argument as an all out class warfare statement, and that would be fair, but at the same time the concern for democracy is behind it.  Wealth gives you power in practice, and lopsided wealth distribution disenfranchises those on the wrong side of it.

You know, I think I remember someone on this board engaging in class-warfare type rhetoric...

Fuck the social contract, I didn't sign on to having millions of worthless pieces of shit demanding handouts while contributing no effort themselves.  Why should those who work hard, save money for the future, and take responsibility for themselves be required to bail out all the worthless layabouts who blow all their money and then some ob big-screen TVs and XBOX 360's and then want a handout because working would distract from their play time.

Fuck em all.  There is nothing more antisocial than the "social contract", which rewards bad behavior and punishes responsibility.  This is why the poor shouldn't be allowed to vote: they end up voting to rob the public until eventually society collapses under their irresponsibility.

That was it.

[Admiral Yi]

First of all, it's not only Democrats that are engaged in "class warfare".  The fact that the very rich pay much less in taxes as percentage of income than upper middle class can be viewed as class warfare as well.  Well, not really warfare, rather the spoils of a war already won by one of the classes.

Which was worse in your opinion, FDR for capping Social Security contributions or JFK for dropping WWII marginal rates?

[DGuller]

First of all, it's not only Democrats that are engaged in "class warfare".  The fact that the very rich pay much less in taxes as percentage of income than upper middle class can be viewed as class warfare as well.  Well, not really warfare, rather the spoils of a war already won by one of the classes.

Which was worse in your opinion, FDR for capping Social Security contributions or JFK for dropping WWII marginal rates?

FDR, of course, though I imagine that setting up the pretense that Social Security wasn't a social welfare program was a political necessity.  Having the marginal tax rates at 91% is absurd.

[grumbler]

But that isn't what DG said. He simply said that making more money in and of itself is class warfare.

Woah, woah, who the fuck is that DG idiot?   

Yeah, that was a pretty frothy summation of your argument! 

[mongers]

Seedy, Dems like you would be a lot easier to stomach of you just liked high taxes in general.

But sadly, it isn't that you are in favor of higher taxes to support greater spending for (and on) everyone, you are in favor of high taxes mainly for the purpose of engaging in class warfare.

It is interesting that your standard for what would clearly be something worthy of concern when it comes to excessive taxes necessitates driving people into poverty. Short of that, any tax increase is a good tax increase, amirite?

I live in the 4th highest taxes in the Union.  I'm in the Federal 28% tax bracket now.  Next year, I will be paying out taxes like a motherfucker for the first time in my life.  Taxes don't hurt me, make a noticable impact on my daily life in the American consumer-based economy or impede my life in any way.  So share with the class how your taxes are destroying your life.  They obviously do, or else you wouldn't be such a whiny bitch about them.  Explain to us how, Berkut, if your tax rate jumped from 28% to 31% you won't be able to buy groceries.

I would be in favor of higher taxes for everyone, if everyone were subject to higher taxes.  But they're not.  Corporations aren't.  Wall Street and the 1% that for some reason you feel slavishly devoted to don't.

But if you think Corporate America(tm), the 1%, Wall Street and their Citizens United-purchased minions on the Hill aren't engaging in class warfare every fucking day, then you're dumber than you write.

Go ahead, keep supporting people who would hate you if they knew you.  Try getting into their country clubs with your voter registration card.  Sucker.

Money has found his voice.