So we hit the debt limit...

[Admiral Yi]

What party is selling the message that we don't need to cut spending? 

Please tell me you're joking.

[Fate]

What party is selling the message that we don't need to cut spending? 

Please tell me you're joking.

What I've seen these past few months is unanimous House Republican opposition to tax increases and a willingness of the leader of the Democratic party to cut spending. What have you seen these past few months?

[Jacob]

Some senior organization is running ads demanding we do it through waste and abuse. 

No problem. Just classify farming subsidies, medicare and medicaid, and the defense budget as "waste and abuse" 

[MadImmortalMan]

Willingness to do cuts in the distant future.



The only ones giving any actual ground appear to be the Gang of 6(7).

[Habbaku]

Some senior organization is running ads demanding we do it through waste and abuse. 

No problem. Just classify farming subsidies, medicare and medicaid, and the defense budget as "waste and abuse" 

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Admiral Yi]

What I've seen these past few months is unanimous House Republican opposition to tax increases and a willingness of the leader of the Democratic party to cut spending. What have you seen these past few months?

I've seen and heard all kinds of stuff in the past few months.  A Democratic Congress and Senate passing a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts for two more years and extend unemployment benefits to 99 weeks as a "second stimulus bill."  Repeated denunciaton of the cruelty and unfairness of the Ryan proposal to freeze Medicare and Medicaid.  Four rounds of government shutdown chicken in which each and every cut proposed was argued against.  A first counter-proposal from Obama that cut nothing and offered only to raise taxes on the forces of darkness.  And even now, after Obama's breakthrough proposal, Nancy Pelosi is still reciting lines about protecting the helpless people on fixed incomes.

[Admiral Yi]

What is it about American society and politics that makes removing tax breaks for people earning incomes 99% of your population is never going to make so contraversial?

If you're talking about things like oil exploraion credits then no one in our population is ever going to qualify.

[crazy canuck]

What is it about American society and politics that makes removing tax breaks for people earning incomes 99% of your population is never going to make so contraversial?

If you're talking about things like oil exploraion credits then no one in our population is ever going to qualify.

Not sure how oil credits are involved. My post relates to the ones directly above it talking about the tax rate on people earning more than 250k.

[Admiral Yi]

Not sure how oil credits are involved. My post relates to the ones directly above it talking about the tax rate on people earning more than 250k.

Ah.  Usually when I read tax breaks I think of some kind of credit or deduction, not the marginal rate.

[crazy canuck]

Not sure how oil credits are involved. My post relates to the ones directly above it talking about the tax rate on people earning more than 250k.

Ah.  Usually when I read tax breaks I think of some kind of credit or deduction, not the marginal rate.

iirc Obama campaigned on ending the tax breaks brought in under the Republicans for people earning 250+.

Back to the original question.  Why all the cultural horror over such a thing?

[MadImmortalMan]

American Dream*

The US is a place full of people who envision themselves as the future rich.

[The Minsky Moment]

iirc Obama campaigned on ending the tax breaks brought in under the Republicans for people earning 250+.

Admiral is giving you the Yi treatment b/c while the Bush cuts lowered marginal rates it can be argued that they didn't put in place tax "breaks" based in income.

IN any event, the 03 cuts never should have been enacted and the 01 cuts should have been allowed to sunset.  Both were enacted as stimulus measures.

[mongers]

American Dream*

The US is a place full of people who envision themselves as the future rich.

The Rich have very effective PR and advertising companies.

[Razgovory]

What I've seen these past few months is unanimous House Republican opposition to tax increases and a willingness of the leader of the Democratic party to cut spending. What have you seen these past few months?

I've seen and heard all kinds of stuff in the past few months.  A Democratic Congress and Senate passing a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts for two more years and extend unemployment benefits to 99 weeks as a "second stimulus bill."  Repeated denunciaton of the cruelty and unfairness of the Ryan proposal to freeze Medicare and Medicaid.  Four rounds of government shutdown chicken in which each and every cut proposed was argued against.  A first counter-proposal from Obama that cut nothing and offered only to raise taxes on the forces of darkness.  And even now, after Obama's breakthrough proposal, Nancy Pelosi is still reciting lines about protecting the helpless people on fixed incomes.

What is your hard-on for the Ryan Plan?  Saying they are opposed the Ryan plan is not the same as saying they opposed all cuts.  The Ryan plan is not even a serious attempt, as most cuts are being kicked down the road by over a decade.  I find it unlikely that the congress adhering to a budget plan that doesn't bear fruit until 2030, which is when the budget is balanced.

And you are right, I do believe the Republicans are trying score political points.  They played the game of tax cuts and deregulation twice in the last 30 years.  It ended the same way both times, with a government bailout of financial institutions, a huge deficit, and a sharp recession.  How many times do they have to try the same stupid idea before it occurs to them it doesn't work.

I have often seen Republicans referring to welfare and entitlement programs as "bribes" for the electorate (particularly minorities), I take the Republicans at their word that they in fact believe this and I think it explains why they want to cut these programs when a Democrat is President and why they are less likely to cut them when a Republican is president.  They are opposed to a Democratic president benefiting from these electoral "bribes", but less so for a Republican.  I think they wish to cut government programs during a Obama's term to make him unpopular with those weak minded minorities who only want a bribe.

What strikes me as odd though, is that the moment that Obama (and Clinton) get elected the GOP goes back to concern about the debt guys like you come running back.  You're like an abused spouse who keeps letting in her husband back in when he promise to fly straight and not hit you anymore.  When President Perry or Romney comes into to office you just get beat all over again.

[DGuller]

What is it about American society and politics that makes removing tax breaks for people earning incomes 99% of your population is never going to make so contraversial?

Hyper-partisanship.  The trick is to grab the people with some hard stances on divisive social issues, like abortion or gay marriage.  Then, when you have them in your control, advocate for issues your really care about, like tax cuts for your campaign contributors. 

Since it's "their party" that's proposing it, they're going go along with it as long as they're provided with some kind of explanation for why the economic policies that are so against their interests are really in their interests.  The explanations don't have to make any logical sense, and most of them just cannot possibly make any sense, but that's not a problem.  They will believe you as long as you let them, and will become your fervent supporters.