Denmark to reinstate border controls to Germany, Sweden

Started by Syt, May 11, 2011, 10:09:56 PM

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Martinus

Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2011, 02:48:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2011, 02:42:39 AM
You also have to remember that EU member states have independent courts, and EU member state courts are empowered to directly apply treaties in their rulings, in the same way US courts can apply the US constitution - and in fact pretty much always they do, finding against their own states and in favour of citizens suing for damages or to invalidate some administrative ruling (e.g. a decision preventing a citizen to work in a country in violation of the EU Treaties). Depending on local procedures they can also either declare a local act of law (just as a statute or a bill) invalid due to the violation of the treaties, or refer it to a constitutional court to take a view on that. Finally, courts are obliged to interpret local law "in the spirit" of the EU law (e.g. when there is an interpretation room or ambiguity, they are obliged to interpret the law in a way that would bring it most in line with the EU law).

There is an extensive body of case law of states being sued for huge amounts on that basis (and this is not just the far reaching "freedom" - e.g. when Italy failed to implement a pension system it was obliged to baed on a EU regulation, an Italian citizen working in a factory in Italy, who was not covered as a result by a pension scheme, succesfully sued the Italian state before an Italian court).

What if a country amends their constitution to put it in conflict with a treaty?

The EU law says that the EU law takes precedence, but constitutions of most countries say that the constitution takes precedence. In practice, a situation like this happened only once or twice iirc, and in each case the state amended its constitution rather than risked a legal interpretation crisis. (One was the case of the German constitution restricting the military service by women, which was in violation of the EU Treaty providing for gender equality in employment; the federal constitution tribunal had to support the German constitution, but the ECJ stated that it wasn't right to do so - it ended with Germans amending their constitution rather than live with this legal madness!!!111 ).

jimmy olsen

#16

Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2011, 02:31:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2011, 02:27:04 AM

Well, what happens if a US state passes law that is contrary to the US constitution and the law is declared invalid by the Supreme Court, but the US state continues to enforce it? Does the US President send in the National Guard?

I don't know the full list of options the Federal Government has at it's disposal, but in short yes.  The President can send soldiers to force the issue, something that has been done in the fairly recent past.
Raz the EU is more like the US under the Article of Confederation, it can't force member states to do anything.
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Jet: I see.
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Razgovory

I hope not, for their sake.  The articles of Confederation were a disaster.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Josquius

Wait, what?
Germany fair enough, Danes have a historic paranoia of Germans. Do they still have those laws about foreigners owning houses to stop Germans buying everything?
But Sweden?- what about the development of the united Oresund city folk like talking about? Lots of people living on one side and working on the other I hear.
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Liep

This has nothing to do with Swedes or Germans, DPP's voters are scared of eastern Europeans and they think this will keep out the criminals.

The random controls probably means they will skip German cars and check the Polish ones.
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Ed Anger

Quote from: Liep on May 12, 2011, 07:26:59 AM
This has nothing to do with Swedes or Germans, DPP's voters are scared of eastern Europeans and they think this will keep out the criminals.

The random controls probably means they will skip German cars and check the Polish ones.

Danes went up one level in my esteem list.
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KRonn

For Denmark, this move is about 71 years too late, regarding the Germans!   ;)   

dps

Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2011, 02:28:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 12, 2011, 01:57:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2011, 10:28:18 PM
Just a question.  Can the EU force it's members to follow the treaties they signed?  More broadly, how does the EU enforce any of it's laws?
The EU is built on consensus and is composed of sovereign states. If a country stops complying the worst that can happen is that the ECJ or EC fine the respective country (by withholding EU funds).

Well, that's not exactly true. A member state could also be suspended in its rights or even outright kicked out of the union for gross violations. Plus treaties are directly enforceable, which means every private or legal person harmed by a EU member state's failure to enforce its provisions can sue the state in breach for damages.

From the article, I'm not sure that it would be possible to demonstrate any actual damages from what Denmark is planning.  Unless merely being inconvenienced is considered an actionable damage.

Liep

Germany will likely lose a lot of border sales, as Danes now have to explain how 100 cases of beer and 2000 packs of cigarettes can be considered "personal use".
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Josquius

Quote from: Liep on May 12, 2011, 07:57:22 AM
Germany will likely lose a lot of border sales, as Danes now have to explain how 100 cases of beer and 2000 packs of cigarettes can be considered "personal use".
They're Danes. They'll manage.
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Tamas


Ed Anger

Quote from: Liep on May 12, 2011, 07:57:22 AM
Germany will likely lose a lot of border sales, as Danes now have to explain how 100 cases of beer and 2000 packs of cigarettes can be considered "personal use".

:lol:

Reminds me of the beer runs out of Harlan county into the saner wet counties.
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Mr.Penguin

Reinstate border control in Denmark??. As usual when it comes to danish matters does the outside world misunderstand what is going on, I wonder if it's on purpose or that foreign journalists just are that stupid... :rolleyes:

No, Denmark isnt about to reinstate border control, we are about to strengthening our custom service, in order to better combat cross border crime. This will mean extra man power to custom service and a more permanent present at the borders, including scanners to scan whole vehicles for illegal goods. The special police units that patrols the border areas, dealing with  illegal drugs and people smuggling, will also get more resources...

The goal is to bring the danish custom service up on the same level as the Swedish custom service. As a matter of fact the Swedish custom service have 300 officers in southern Sweden alone, mainly dealing with traffic coming from Denmark. While the danish custom service only have 185 officers deal with the whole country, including the borders, airports and ports...

At worse will ordinary travelers have endure an extra change of being subjected a random spot check at the danish border...     
 
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Slargos

Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2011, 05:17:58 AM
Wait, what?
Germany fair enough, Danes have a historic paranoia of Germans. Do they still have those laws about foreigners owning houses to stop Germans buying everything?
But Sweden?- what about the development of the united Oresund city folk like talking about? Lots of people living on one side and working on the other I hear.

:lol:

The "Swedish" side is not only strictly Swedish these days, you know.  :lol:

I am reminded of the interview with a muslim woman where she gushes that "I love living in Malmö, it feels almost like an arabic city."

Ed Anger

Quote from: Slargos on May 12, 2011, 08:27:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2011, 05:17:58 AM
Wait, what?
Germany fair enough, Danes have a historic paranoia of Germans. Do they still have those laws about foreigners owning houses to stop Germans buying everything?
But Sweden?- what about the development of the united Oresund city folk like talking about? Lots of people living on one side and working on the other I hear.

:lol:

The "Swedish" side is not only strictly Swedish these days, you know.  :lol:

I am reminded of the interview with a muslim woman where she gushes that "I love living in Malmö, it feels almost like an arabic city."

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive