Scots going on The List

[Valmy]

Oh shit did the Lettowists win a smashing victory in Scotland?  Will Haggis now have to be imported into England?

Did the AV thing get smashed?

Anything about these latest British elections I should take note of?

[Eddie Teach]

Did they vote for FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMM?

[Gups]

The SNP's leader is the only first class politician in Scottish politics. The SNP have done pretty well as a minority govet in the last 4 years and have capaigned really well. They've really softened their independence rhetoric although its still a major policy.

Looks like they will hold a referendum in a couple of years time. Current polls suggest that there is not much appetite for independence. No surprise really. They run their domestic affairs and are subsidised billions by England - what's not to like? The question is how far they can game the system before the English get sick of them.

[Neil]

Maybe they should put that line with the 'rebellious Scots to crush' back into 'God Save The Queen'.

Still, I don't think that the sovereigntist movement in Scotland is serious, much like the one in Quebec.  Sure, they use the rhetoric of nationalism, but ultimately it's all about economically disadvantaged areas using the threat of secession to fleece the better off parts of a country.  While the rank and file might be nationalists, the people running the show are not, and are in fact socialists.

[Josquius]

A vote for the SNP isn't a vote for independance. Most SNP voters vote SNP because of their other policies.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Very interesting elections.

I would imagine that Salmond will not press for a referendum on independence for Scotland, he would lose and he's far too canny a politician to fall for it. Instead he will do things with the English subsidies that maximise irritation here and firm his base up there.

It looks like AV will be rejected.

The Lib-Dems have been hammered and the tories have actually increased their number of council seats held. Cameron has comprehensively exploited and out-manoeuvred Clegg.

Labour has gained council seats in England, is completely dominant in Wales but must be very worried about the result in Scotland. I don't think that they have done well at all and need to take a look at their campaign, "the tories are nasty" is not going to cut it for them.

[Gups]

Very interesting elections.

I would imagine that Salmond will not press for a referendum on independence for Scotland, he would lose and he's far too canny a politician to fall for it. Instead he will do things with the English subsidies that maximise irritation here and firm his base up there.

It looks like AV will be rejected.

The Lib-Dems have been hammered and the tories have actually increased their number of council seats held. Cameron has comprehensively exploited and out-manoeuvred Clegg.

Labour has gained council seats in England, is completely dominant in Wales but must be very worried about the result in Scotland. I don't think that they have done well at all and need to take a look at their campaign, "the tories are nasty" is not going to cut it for them.

Spot on, except it will be hard for Salmon to get out of holding a referendum. Not to say that he won't manage it. I don't like the SNP much, but he really is an exceptional politician.

[Lettow77]

Maybe they should put that line with the 'rebellious Scots to crush' back into 'God Save The Queen'.

Still, I don't think that the sovereigntist movement in Scotland is serious, much like the one in Quebec.  Sure, they use the rhetoric of nationalism, but ultimately it's all about economically disadvantaged areas using the threat of secession to fleece the better off parts of a country.  While the rank and file might be nationalists, the people running the show are not, and are in fact socialists.

But are they: National Socialists? 

Unfortunately, this is a bad time for a referendum. It won't pass- you know the woman vote will be easily swayed by the royal wedding, and pro-independence has never had a clear majority anyhow. But they have to piss or get off the pot- they can't win a majority in the parliament and NOT put out the referendum. So it will be beaten, unless there is a merciful providence watching out for Scotland.

[Barrister]

If he follows the Quebec example he'll find there's little actual downside to holding a referendum.  You get to stand up for your cause even if you lose.

[Drakken]

If he follows the Quebec example he'll find there's little actual downside to holding a referendum.  You get to stand up for your cause even if you lose.

Except that last time, they nearly won.

[Richard Hakluyt]

If he follows the Quebec example he'll find there's little actual downside to holding a referendum.  You get to stand up for your cause even if you lose.

They are very uncommon here; if he lost a referendum another would not even be considered for at least 25 years.

[Josquius]

Maybe they should put that line with the 'rebellious Scots to crush' back into 'God Save The Queen'.

Still, I don't think that the sovereigntist movement in Scotland is serious, much like the one in Quebec.  Sure, they use the rhetoric of nationalism, but ultimately it's all about economically disadvantaged areas using the threat of secession to fleece the better off parts of a country.  While the rank and file might be nationalists, the people running the show are not, and are in fact socialists.

But are they: National Socialists? 

Unfortunately, this is a bad time for a referendum. It won't pass- you know the woman vote will be easily swayed by the royal wedding, and pro-independence has never had a clear majority anyhow. But they have to piss or get off the pot- they can't win a majority in the parliament and NOT put out the referendum. So it will be beaten, unless there is a merciful providence watching out for Scotland.

If God is merciful it will fail. As it is expected to.  There's more to being a country than just waving a flag around, independance would be economic suicide for Scotland.

[Barrister]

If he follows the Quebec example he'll find there's little actual downside to holding a referendum.  You get to stand up for your cause even if you lose.

They are very uncommon here; if he lost a referendum another would not even be considered for at least 25 years.

They are exceedingly rare here as well.

Other than the 2 Quebec independence referendums, there was a national referendum in '92 on constitutional change (it failed), and BC had a referendum on proportional representation.

That's been it.

So yeah you hold a referendum now, you won't get another crack for at least a decade, maybe two.  But so what.

Like I said there's almost no downside to holding a referendum on independence, as there are few consequences to losing one.  And you might just win (the '95 vote people forget saw the PQ trailing badly until Bouchard stepped in in the last couple of weeks to almost pull it out).

[derspiess]

I'm proud of my Scottish roots, but most modern day Scots seem a bit loony.

[Richard Hakluyt]

AV has been comprehensively rejected btw, 31% for AV 69% against.