Game of Thrones begins....

[Valmy]

Yes.... surely there's been a historic example of this?
King dies.  Son 2 becomes king.... then son 1s kid is born.
Is son 1s kid the heir of son 2? (Until son 2 has kids? Forever?) Is he totally out of the succession?

Well the posthumous birth of the oldest son is a pretty rare occurrence. There probably is but I cannot think of one.

As for the grandson inheriting, well Richard II was son of the Black Prince (who died before Edward III) and he inherited ahead of his uncles.

[Jacob]

I guess I just imagine inheritance, at least in theory, being kind of an instantaneous thing.

King dies, at that moment his heir is the new king, even if he hasn't been officially crowned yet.

My understanding is that in Europe at least Kingship was only official once the king was anointed/ proclaimed/ crowned/ whatever the local process was. Before then, at most you'd be the king-in-waiting/ presumed king/ something like that.

[Zanza]

Have you guys never played Crusader Kings II? There are different inheritance laws in Medieval Europe, not just agnatic primogeniture (Salic law).

[Valmy]

No Berkut is right. 'The King is dead, Long live the King!'

Only Holy Roman Emperors had that weird status before they were officially crowned.

[Zanza]

No Berkut is right. 'The King is dead, Long live the King!'

Only Holy Roman Emperors had that weird status before they were officially crowned.

The King of Germany (officially called "King of the Romans") was elected by the leading nobles temporal and spiritual of the realm. There was no Holy Roman Emperor that wasn't also elected King of Germany before and the crowning of a German king as Roman Emperor was optional but didn't really dimish the legal rights of the king in Germany. So the whole "The king is dead, long live the king!" concept didn't apply because there was no succession by inheritance.

[Razgovory]

I wonder if Gregor Clegane is now classified as one of the undead and can now only be killed with fire.  If so it would make sense for Sandor to join with the Brothers without Banners where he would have the chance to kill his brother with the help of Thoros of Myr.

[Zanza]

It's not really clear if the various undead in the books and TV series are all the same.

There seem to be various classes:
Resurrected by Red Priests (Dondarrion, Lady Stoneheart, Jon Snow)
Resurrected by a fallen Maester (Gregor Clegane)
Created as undead by the Children of the Forest (The Night King and his retinue)
Created as undead by the Night King (the zombies in Hardhome)
Some other status (Benjen Stark/Coldhands)

[Valmy]

So the whole "The king is dead, long live the king!" concept didn't apply because there was no succession by inheritance.

True. If a monarchy is elected it is done that way.

But, to the best of my knowledge, no monarchy in Westeros is run that way.

[viper37]

William the Conqueror inherited Normandy despite being a bastard.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, but Bastard Bill was an exception in Christian Europe, not the norm.  Bastardy was quite common, and in some countries Bastards were given special titles.  Sometimes they could be legitimized by legal fiat, but if they were expected to inherent then a civil war was likely.

Nobody talked about it being the norm.  The question was asked if a bastard could inherit a title.  Yes, they could.

[viper37]

One thing about ASOIF is that while "blood" is transmitted, genes apparently do not exist, as incest seems to have no negative effects beyond occasional madness in progeny.  Example - Zero genetic defects in the three children of fraternal twins.  If the Thutmosids had been in Martin's universe, they still would be ruling Egypt.

That's only one generation.  We do not know how all of the Targaryens looked.

[viper37]

Besides you are acting like noblemen did marry out of love. Marriage was negotiated between families.

No, most would not.  Maybe very minor nobility with no suitable marriages, poor/peasant families, but certainly not influential nobles.

[Jacob]

No Berkut is right. 'The King is dead, Long live the King!'

Only Holy Roman Emperors had that weird status before they were officially crowned.

What do you base that on? That certainly doesn't describe the Scandinavian kingdoms in the middle ages. I'd expect it doesn't apply in most of Europe at least until you get close to the absolute monarchies. AFAIK, the coronation ceremony was of prime significance pretty much across the board in Europe.

[Berkut]

It doesn't really seem that complicated to me..

It's not really clear if the various undead in the books and TV series are all the same.

There seem to be various classes:
Resurrected by Red Priests (Dondarrion, Lady Stoneheart, Jon Snow)

Not undead at all. The process of resurrection might have some negative effects, especially for those it is repeated on over and over, but in general someone resurrected is just like a normal person in every way.

Resurrected by a fallen Maester (Gregor Clegane)

I am not even sure Clegane was ever dead, very possible he was simply saved through some process that is dabbling into necromancy and dark magic. Certainly it is the case that the result is some kind of fucked up human being though.

Created as undead by the Children of the Forest (The Night King and his retinue)
Created as undead by the Night King (the zombies in Hardhome)

These are the two classic undead classes. The mindful undead, and the mindless undead. I don't think the mindless are all that hard to kill per se, maybe depending on the condition of the bodies?

The mindful undead are definitely rather hard to kill unless you have a sliver of obsidian, in which case they are stupidly easy to kill and should maybe invest in some leather armor or something.

Some other status (Benjen Stark/Coldhands)

Benjen is aborted example of one of the two "true" undeads - the children found him and rather than allow him to become a zombie, used a similar process to what they used to create the Night King to arrest his transformation, leaving him kinda sorta undead.

[Valmy]

No, most would not.  Maybe very minor nobility with no suitable marriages, poor/peasant families, but certainly not influential nobles.

Then why almost all of them end up in socially/politically advantageous marriages and carry on with mistresses then?

[Zanza]

Not undead at all. The process of resurrection might have some negative effects, especially for those it is repeated on over and over, but in general someone resurrected is just like a normal person in every way.

Jon seems to be normal. Lady Stoneheart has a completely different personality than Catelyn Stark and not really a normal person (being half-rotten). Beric Dondarrion also seems to have lost parts of his previous personality.