Game of Thrones begins....

[grumbler]

My current theory on Dorne is that the show is setting up a future moral dilemma for Daenerys: Dorne is a "friend" because against the Lannisters, but also an enemy because they will declare independence.  I agree with those who think that, th Red Viper bits excepted, the Dorne plotline in both book and show has been a big distraction without payoff yet.

[Gups]

Although I've read the books and watched the show, I'm not following as closely as you guys. How powerful are the Lannisters at this point? They've still got the King but the sparrows seem to be the main power at King's Landing. The family seems to have little intellectual firepower left. Are the Tyrells still with them now Margaery's looked up? The Freys?

[The Larch]

Although I've read the books and watched the show, I'm not following as closely as you guys. How powerful are the Lannisters at this point? They've still got the King but the sparrows seem to be the main power at King's Landing. The family seems to have little intellectual firepower left. Are the Tyrells still with them now Margaery's looked up? The Freys?

They control most of the royal power through Tommen, but their position is weaker and weaker as times goes by, and as Cersei's tenuous grip on sanity after her imprisonment slips by. The Tyrells are still theoretically by their side but aren't happy at all about having Margaery AND Loras locked up. The Freys are still by their side and in the process of supplanting the Tullys as Lords of the Riverlands. We should see some action around there this season.

[Gups]

Thanks Larchie. Who's running the Storm lands these days?

[Martinus]

Although I've read the books and watched the show, I'm not following as closely as you guys. How powerful are the Lannisters at this point? They've still got the King but the sparrows seem to be the main power at King's Landing. The family seems to have little intellectual firepower left. Are the Tyrells still with them now Margaery's looked up? The Freys?

They are the colossus with the feet of clay. They have no open rival left as both Starks and Stannis are gone - but their power has greatly eroded since its height before Joffrey's death and it is slipping each day.

I mean, of the Seven Kingdoms, they control Casterly Rock, but at least four (the North, the Vale, Dorne and the Iron Islands) are essentially on a brink of an open rebellion, with the remaining two (Stormlands and the Reach) are loyal to Tyrells who can do a turnabout at any moment (it makes you wonder actually if the silence from Mace and Olenna over Margeary and Loras being imprisoned is just because the plot would be too crowded, or because they are actually up to something) and Riverlands (not a Kingdom technically) are in a civil war, and Freys, obviously, are treacherous as they come (and Walder Frey is making a come back this season).

They are also deeply in debt, and as you point out, even in the King's Landing their control is far from absolute.

[Martinus]

Thanks Larchie. Who's running the Storm lands these days?

I assume it's Lannisters (through Tommen), but would not be surprised if it was actually somehow controlled by Tyrells. Incidentally, I wonder if anyone actually bothered to capture the Dragon Stone after Stannis has left for the Wall.

Edit: Actually, according to the wiki, it appears most of it is loyal to Tommen, but Storm's End has been controlled by Stannis - in the books it is actually being besieged about the same time as the tv series is right now, by Mace Tyrell.

[Gups]

Edit: Actually, according to the wiki, it appears most of it is loyal to Tommen, but Storm's End has been controlled by Stannis - in the books it is actually being besieged about the same time as the tv series is right now, by Mace Tyrell.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now.

One last question, why do you say that the north is in open rebellion? I thought the Boltons were still allied with the Lannisters?

[HVC]

Iirc some of the more northern families (bear islands?) haven't sworn allegence to the boltons and there's an issue with the karstarks since the male line is dead and the castellion wants to marry the daughter. Lastly the house of Ramsey's first wife is none to pleased how she died.

[Grey Fox]

Edit: Actually, according to the wiki, it appears most of it is loyal to Tommen, but Storm's End has been controlled by Stannis - in the books it is actually being besieged about the same time as the tv series is right now, by Mace Tyrell.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now.

One last question, why do you say that the north is in open rebellion? I thought the Boltons were still allied with the Lannisters?

Kinda but Bolton had Sansa marry is bastard son.

[Martinus]

Edit: Actually, according to the wiki, it appears most of it is loyal to Tommen, but Storm's End has been controlled by Stannis - in the books it is actually being besieged about the same time as the tv series is right now, by Mace Tyrell.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now.

One last question, why do you say that the north is in open rebellion? I thought the Boltons were still allied with the Lannisters?

Boltons essentially rebelled when Ramsay married Sansa. I am not sure to what extent Lannisters are aware of that but it is only a matter of time before they do. Roose actually says to Ramsay in the last episode that even if he routed Stannis's force, that's nowhere near what defeating a disciplined Lannister army would be like.

[crazy canuck]

Edit: Actually, according to the wiki, it appears most of it is loyal to Tommen, but Storm's End has been controlled by Stannis - in the books it is actually being besieged about the same time as the tv series is right now, by Mace Tyrell.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now.

One last question, why do you say that the north is in open rebellion? I thought the Boltons were still allied with the Lannisters?

Boltons essentially rebelled when Ramsay married Sansa. I am not sure to what extent Lannisters are aware of that but it is only a matter of time before they do. Roose actually says to Ramsay in the last episode that even if he routed Stannis's force, that's nowhere near what defeating a disciplined Lannister army would be like.

And he also mentioned the real danger of Sansa's escape.  They need the forces of the North to defeat the Lannisters.  Without Sansa the Bolton rebellion is doomed.  And, of course, their most immediate danger is Sansa herself rallying her father's bannermen against the Boltons.

The question is, how does this play into Littlefinger's plans - help or hindrance?

[Tamas]

I am quite convinced the original intention with Littlefinger and Sansa (in the books) was for him to marry her both for personal reasons and to make a claim on the North eventually, but this was deemed too long a plotline for the TV show, and thus shall probably be dropped by Martin as well.

[Valmy]

I am quite convinced the original intention with Littlefinger and Sansa (in the books) was for him to marry her both for personal reasons and to make a claim on the North eventually, but this was deemed too long a plotline for the TV show, and thus shall probably be dropped by Martin as well.

God I hope not. I have been waiting for Harry the Heir for 11 fucking years.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Littlefinger's machinations re: Harry is the focus of one of the released Winds of Winter chapters, so I think it's still in.

[Tamas]

Harry who?