Game of Thrones begins....

[Martinus]

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

Lol no. [spoiler]Barristan getting murdered by a bunch of civilian morons is not a good send-off. And they kept Grey Worm alive, so we can look forward to more Missandei romance-angst scenes. [/spoiler]

Why is everything else on the last episode a non spoiler but this suddenly is?

[Martinus]

Works well for simple minds yes.  But we miss a lot of the plot that makes the characters actions make sense if one thinks that sort of thing is important.  Why did a young man who had an incestuous relationship with the most powerful women in the kingdom suddenly become a religious zealot?   Who knows. Cant show that part of the story. Takes too much time.  Just suspend disbelief and go with the story.

Only because something is not explained in detail for morons on screen does not mean it involves "suspension of desbelief" especially if it involves a tertiary character.

[crazy canuck]

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

Lol no. [spoiler]Barristan getting murdered by a bunch of civilian morons is not a good send-off. And they kept Grey Worm alive, so we can look forward to more Missandei romance-angst scenes. [/spoiler]

Why is everything else on the last episode a non spoiler but this suddenly is?

[spoiler]I was wondering the same thing[/spoiler]

[crazy canuck]

Works well for simple minds yes.  But we miss a lot of the plot that makes the characters actions make sense if one thinks that sort of thing is important.  Why did a young man who had an incestuous relationship with the most powerful women in the kingdom suddenly become a religious zealot?   Who knows. Cant show that part of the story. Takes too much time.  Just suspend disbelief and go with the story.

Only because something is not explained in detail for morons on screen does not mean it involves "suspension of desbelief" especially if it involves a tertiary character.

True, but it also leads to the larger problem you already identified that Cersie just looks stupid for the decision she made.  The reason Lancel became a follower is bound up in the reason Cersei supported the High Sparrow.  That whole part of the story (which I think was the most interesting) is cut out and replaced with Cersie being petulant.

[KRonn]

Or, at least, Littlefinger thinks he has the real power in Westeros.

The fact that he agreed with Sansa that the older Bolton is the one to be feared (when Ramsey is far more dangerous, because deranged) indicates that maybe he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.  The fact that he is returning to King's Landing (where the Sparrows are running wild against people just like him) also tells me that maybe he doesn't quite have the grasp on affairs that he believes himself to possess.

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

I think strategically the older Bolton is the one to fear, being the one with power and he's quite ruthless, just not deranged like his half-son. He's as nasty, vicious in the books as I remember it. Though I can't imagine what the younger Bolton would be like if he comes to rule.

I'm always surprised that the unsullied don't have short weapons like swords to use in close quarters fighting. The spears are great but difficult to use in fast moving close in fights. I don't remember from the books but they probably just have the spears there too.

[Admiral Yi]

It was a mistake to make the Unsullied castrati.

[Berkut]

The entire Cersei-Sparrow thing so far has been very badly done, IMO.

I don't mind simplifying for the sake of time and show space. But they changed stuff so that it makes the story LESS interesting, and makes LESS sense.

They completely missed setting up the need for the arming of the religious orders completely. No mention, even in passing, of the desire for armed monks/priests/lay people at all. This would have taken about 2 minutes of screen time sprinkled throughout the last season and a half.

They have Cersei suggesting this to the head sparrow, as if he had never even thought of the idea. Why would SHE suddenly think of the idea, much less think it is a good idea, since she isn't getting anything for allowing it, since SHE IS THE ONE SUGGESTING IT!

This does not save any time from the way the book had it, and makes a LOT less sense, and makes

Cersei look even more stupid
Makes Head Sparrow guy look less clever, since apparently he is too dumb himself to think of the idea of arming his followers.
And makes the king looks that much weaker since he apparently cannot even handle these guys who are armed only by his own sufferance, and with no guarantee of any kind.

There is no sense of "Oh crap, what did I do allow here?" since it was the Lannisters who came up with the entire idea of arming them to begin with, and for no discernible reason or even justification.

[Grey Fox]

While I enjoy reading it, you guys are doing again. None of this is a problem is you have not read the books.

Lancel is shell shock & finds religion.
Cersei is a reactionary mother trying to regain control of her boy-king and her hold on the country. Head Sparrow is not clever, Cersei is. Until he betrays her, I guess.

[Berkut]

It isn't about him betraying her, it is about them clearly (already) creating something they cannot control. That is the point, even outside the books. Cersei is thinking short term, which is fundamentally her problem throughout. Someone said it before - she is thinking tactically, and forgetting the larger picture.

Ignoring the books, the plot line here doesn't make sense. Why would Cersei even get the idea of creating an armed order? Where did the need for such a thing even come from? It is invented whole cloth in the same episode they are created. They could have set this up so much better if they had thought more than one episode ahead - which is pretty obvious, which suggests to me that they did NOT think more than one episode at a time for this part of the story, which is unfortunate and sloppy. Just a few seconds of screen time in previous episodes, with a comment during a small council meeting of atrocities being committed against silent sisters or priests, and the problem that creates since the religious orders are forbidden by royal edict from being armed.


Something that would setup the need for the sparrow to want something from Cersei, and Cersei giving it to him in return for what she thinks is control. This would take very little time, and make a vastly more compelling story.

Yeah, comaring it to the books it is very poorly done, but even ignoring the books, it is still pretty poorly handled.

And even in the show, it is pretty obvious head sparrow is a bit more clever than he is letting on...

[Solmyr]

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

Lol no. [spoiler]Barristan getting murdered by a bunch of civilian morons is not a good send-off. And they kept Grey Worm alive, so we can look forward to more Missandei romance-angst scenes. [/spoiler]

Why is everything else on the last episode a non spoiler but this suddenly is?

Fine. Barristan gets shanked by idiots like a chump.

[Eddie Teach]

He gets shanked by a crowd, also as they are either mercs or nobles they probably have some training.

[Solmyr]

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

Lol no. [spoiler]Barristan getting murdered by a bunch of civilian morons is not a good send-off. And they kept Grey Worm alive, so we can look forward to more Missandei romance-angst scenes. [/spoiler]

Lol Yes [spoiler]Barriston goes out fighting the enemies of his queen, kills many of them, and saves Grey Worm's life.  That's how he would have wanted to go, and as he got older the chances were diminishing.[/spoiler]

It's not the purpose of his death, it's who gets to kill him. Gangbangers with shivs killing the most skilled knight in Westeros is not believable in the slightest. In the books Barristan is still alive and pretty much running things in Meereen, and [spoiler]if he gets killed in the next book it'll be in a large battle against Yunkai.[/spoiler]

[grumbler]

Works well for simple minds yes.  But we miss a lot of the plot that makes the characters actions make sense if one thinks that sort of thing is important.  Why did a young man who had an incestuous relationship with the most powerful women in the kingdom suddenly become a religious zealot?   Who knows. Cant show that part of the story. Takes too much time.  Just suspend disbelief and go with the story.

Only because something is not explained in detail for morons on screen does not mean it involves "suspension of desbelief" especially if it involves a tertiary character.

This is cC. He'd dispute it if I said the sky was blue.  It's kind of amusing, really. 

In reality, you are correct that Lancel's actions make as much sense as a Sparrow as they do as a knight-penitent.  And cC misses the fact that Lancel explains why he became a religious zealot, but that's kind of  amusing, as well.

[Solmyr]

He gets shanked by a crowd, also as they are either mercs or nobles they probably have some training.

I've seen no indication that the Sons of the Harpy have any significant combat training.

[crazy canuck]

BTW, I agree with the complaint that the Unsullied responded poorly to the mob, but like the fact that [spoiler]Barristan got such a nice send-off - he'd want to go in battle[/spoiler]

Lol no. [spoiler]Barristan getting murdered by a bunch of civilian morons is not a good send-off. And they kept Grey Worm alive, so we can look forward to more Missandei romance-angst scenes. [/spoiler]

Lol Yes [spoiler]Barriston goes out fighting the enemies of his queen, kills many of them, and saves Grey Worm's life.  That's how he would have wanted to go, and as he got older the chances were diminishing.[/spoiler]

It's not the purpose of his death, it's who gets to kill him. Gangbangers with shivs killing the most skilled knight in Westeros is not believable in the slightest. In the books Barristan is still alive and pretty much running things in Meereen, and [spoiler]if he gets killed in the next book it'll be in a large battle against Yunkai.[/spoiler]

Agreed.  The most important man in the city walking about without an armed escort when the Sons of the Harpy are on a killing spree?  Another example of the writers of the show taking sloppy short cuts.  Now that they have moved well outside the narrative of the books they are not telling a very compelling story.