Game of Thrones begins....

[Grey Fox]

Alright. I never realise that from the show. Maybe they haven't mentioned the kids full name, yet.

[garbon]

Quote on this page says that they mentioned he was the father of the kids.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Howland_Reed

[Viking]

Quote on this page says that they mentioned he was the father of the kids.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Howland_Reed

One of my favorite conspiracy theories to entertain out there is that Jojen Reed is actually Howland Reed.

[Viking]

My actual favorite conspiracy is my own... this one

Rhaegar and Mance share the following attributes

Same age, same height, same body size, same interest in music, same interest in prophecy, same skill apparently unique skill set, same favourite colours and most people think they are dead. The main difference is hair color and eye color.

I am going to propose a narrative of how I think history unfolded showing how certain events in the book contribute to foreshadowing the obstacles to the R=M hypothesis, how these events tie together otherwise unrelated events in the books and how this weaves a considerable number of loose threads together to form a coherent whole.

The assumptions you need to make to have this narrative work are

1) That there is a prophecy which is know to the initiated.
2) That kinds of events can happen again.

Ok, the narrative is as follows.

Young Rhaegar, bookish and nerdy, reads up on his prophecy and finds something important. Personally I think this prophecy also explains Aerys' madness since it is quite possible that both were working to fulfil it at the time, leading (unwittingly) to Roberts Rebellion. Once he reads the prophecy he has a profound change of lifestyle, he decides to learn how to fight.

In apparent fulfilment of the prophecy he marries Elia of Dorne. Which would be the first marriage of a Targaryen in the line of succession to a non-Targaryen since Dorne was brought into the kingdom and before that since Aegon's Conquest. I think he did this in pursuit of the prophecy. He then corresponds with Maester Aemon at the wall thinking his son by Elia is the PWP. I think Aemon corrected his mis-understanding of the prophecy with books from his library.

Later at the tourney at Harrenhall Rhaegar fights with an unprecented ferocity and skill to become champion letting him bestow the title of queen of love and beauty on Lyanna, not his wife. Earlier in the tourney the Knight of the Laughing tree bests a few minor nobles and Rhaegars squire promises to uncover the secret identity. I think the squire uncovers the identity, tells Rhaegar who then realizes what the prophecies really mean. He then determines to win the tourney and woo Lyanna. Lyannas symbol of the blue flower which appears in the house of the undying where it breaks the wall is probably related to the prophecy.

Not being able to plausibly break the engagement Lyanna already had with Robert he kidnaps her. Meanwhile the mad king, in trying to fulfil his end of the prophecy seeks to revive dragons, by, if necessary burning all of kings landing with dragon eggs hoping to find a blood of the dragon in fleabottom or something. At this point Roberts Rebellion breaks out. This is a minor inconvenience for Rhaegar who is away at the Tower of Joy trying to fulfil a prophecy with Lyanna. This is why Aerys bungles the war and hires and fires Hands.

With Lyanna pregnant and the prophecy apparently being fulfilled, Rhaegar returns. He then departs to lead the army against the nuisance Robert telling Jamie that everything will be different, since now there is no need to burn the city to fulfil the prophecy. He leaves Jamie as hostage to Tywins loyalty, leave his 3 best white cloak friends at the TOJ with the PWP, takes the other 3 white cloaks to the Ruby ford where he is beaten by Robert.

Tyrion fights in a battle at almost the same location where he is knocked out, left for dead and still alive. I think the same thing happened to Rhaegar. Covered in mud his armour, now without the rubies left him looking like any other dead body. Only he was without his heraldry. The Hound allegedly floated down the river after his death where he was saved at the silent isle. I think this happened to Rhaegar too. He was badly injured and by the time he recovered he entered a new world with Robert on the throne, his family dead, Lyanna dead and apparently no hope of him fulfilling he prophecy. He then goes into hiding at the wall where his uncle aemon helps him hide his identity to keep him safe from Robert's wrath along with Jeor Mormont and Qorin Half Hand (and possibly others).

At this point he has a new, fake name, is hiding his identity behind a disguise, potentially a faceless man style diguise he might have learned about from his booklearning. He might also have travelled to Essos after leaving the Nights Watch. He then goes to fulfil the rest of the prophecy, or at least the bits he can contribute to the prophecy. Failing to find the horn of joramund (which sam finds at the fist of the first men), he tries to save the wildlings from the coming catastrophy by getting them across the wall. He does this because he fails to contact Mormont before the great ranging is destroyed at the fist. He then lets Jon keep his sword and protect his half brother possibly as a test of the prophecy.

An interesting consequence of this is that the assassination attempt on Bran may have been prophecy related. Brans paralyzation may be in the prophecies and given the importance of understanding prophecy burning the library might not just have been a diversion, it might have been an attempt to burn books with information on the prophecy, making the person who hired the assassin possibly an agent of the others or the evil god opposing Ryhllor.

Mance's trip to Winterfell during Roberts visit may have have many many more reasons. Including a visit to Lyannas Tomb which would have been unsealed for Roberts visit and a look at Jon Snow to confirm he was Lyannas son (by looking at his face) to reassure him that the prophecy was valid, possibly after hearing from Ben-Jen Stark that Jon looked like Lyanna.

Jon says in AFFC Ch.5 "Mance's blood is no more royal than mine own". Knowing what we know about R+L=J this suddenly becomes relevant. Also, Mance takes on the name Able, an anagram of Bale, who famously stole the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell and returned her with a son. Which, is amazing relevat if Jon is Lyannas son by Rhaegar and Rhaegar is Mance.

This all assumes that Rhaegar survived the battle like Tyrion, survived the river like The Hound,could change his appearance as Jaqen H'Gar and could have his death faked like Mance Rayder. That Martin's comment on how Rhaegar was cremated is misleading.

[Neil]

Seems unlikely, given the very public nature of Rhaegar's death, what with him being slain in front of about half the mustered manpower of Westeros.  And what would he have to gain by faking his death?

[The Brain]

And what would he have to gain by faking his death?

[Viking]

Seems unlikely, given the very public nature of Rhaegar's death, what with him being slain in front of about half the mustered manpower of Westeros.  And what would he have to gain by faking his death?

I'm saying he got his chest caved in at the ruby ford, he wakes up at the silent isle and is bedridden for months. By the time he wakes up he is "dead" his family is dead and a new king is on the throne with all the nobles in the land pledging fealty.  Staying dead is a good way to not get murdered in that position.

I'm surmising that at that point he realizes that there is nothing more he can do to realize the prophecy and he probably thinks lyanna and the babe are dead. Later when he has moved up to the wall, he defects to the wildlings to try and help the prophecy.

[crazy canuck]

I have caved and subscribed to HBO

[Grey Fox]

I have caved and subscribed to HBO

Canadian Subs of HBO do come much cheaper and with more stuff then it's US counterpart.

[Admiral Yi]

Not a terribly interesting season opener.

[Habbaku]

You have to watch past the first 8.2 minutes.

[jimmy olsen]

My sister made a cake! 

[Liep]

It must be difficult to make a season opener on this, so many threads to start up. None of them got really interesting, but I can see the 2nd episode being good.

[crazy canuck]

I liked it.  This may have been one of the few times reading the books was an advantage as you can see the set up for what is to come. 

[Josephus]

You have to watch past the first 8.2 minutes.

Yup. Didnt take too long for full female nudity.