Game of Thrones begins....

[Neil]

It took for the first episode of 3 season to achieve but finally Danny's story isn't boring anymore.

To me, I'm just dreading where her story is going.  I hate her character as she stands in the books.  I'm looking forward to the appearance of Dondarrion and the Brotherhood as well as The Hound coming back onto the scene.

Seriously? I completely love her character and can't wait to see what she does next in Astapor and beyond. I was getting moved just thinking about it, watching the episode.

On the other hand, I can't stand Stannis. He is despicable and at least Lannisters are less deluded.

That makes perfect sense.  You would like a flighty teenage girl who just lets the wind blow her around into foolish misadventure after foolish misadventure.  On the other hand, a dignified man with a firm sense of what is right and what is wrong and an unwillingness to compromise himself would disgust you.  Except for the whole having his brother magically assassinated thing.

Or maybe you just liked how in the last book pretty much all of her chapters were dominated by her thinking about cocks, whereas Stannis never does that.

[garbon]

Except for the whole having his brother magically assassinated thing.

Yeah except for that totally minor thing.

[Neil]

Except for the whole having his brother magically assassinated thing.

Yeah except for that totally minor thing.

Yeah, to me that's Stannis' moral event horizon.  Associating with the most evil character in the series is a bad thing.  Mind you, he's still the legitimate king.

[Berkut]

I think from where Stannis is sitting, having his brother killed is in fact moral, but the code he works by - he had esentially tried and convicted his brother of treason. He gave him the opportunity to change his mind. At that point, the sentence for treason is death, and what matters the means by which that sentence is carried out?

Stannis strikes me as a pretty serious "means to an end" kind of guy. His morality and sense of justice is driven by results, and if the results are "moral" than the means to achieve those results matter little.

He would never, ever murder someone to take a throne that was rightfully theirs - but killing a traitor who is trying to take his throne is not even murder, it is an execution.

[MadImmortalMan]

Stannis strikes me as a pretty serious "means to an end" kind of guy. His morality and sense of justice is driven by results, and if the results are "moral" than the means to achieve those results matter little.

Yeah, Stannis is definitely a guy who believes justice and morality intersect only coincidentally from time to time. And justice is the arbiter of right and wrong, not morality.

[Neil]

That's an interesting way to see it.  Still, dishonouring his wife with the villain so that he can execute his brother isn't admirable.  Then again, I suppose sorcery was his only option, wasn't it?

[Queequeg]

You really think Melisandre is "the villain"?

[Queequeg]

Did anyone else think this episode looked amazing?  The details on the costume and the lighting just seemed beyond anything they were capable of in the first season, and beyond the second season as well. Though I wish some of that money had gone in to the fight at Fist of the First Men. 

[Queequeg]

Also, the actor who plays the Greatjon isn't in this season, which will just completely fuckup the entire Red Wedding.   

[Berkut]

Did anyone else think this episode looked amazing?  The details on the costume and the lighting just seemed beyond anything they were capable of in the first season, and beyond the second season as well. Though I wish some of that money had gone in to the fight at Fist of the First Men. 

I hope less money goes into "fights" and more into story.

I am pretty much all set with my lifetime quota of fantasy swordfights. Unless the fight has some particular importance to actual characters (Jaime-Ned, Jon-Qorrin, etc., etc) another 10 minutes of people chopping each other up is of little interest to me, and those are precious minutes that could be telling the story.

[Neil]

You really think Melisandre is "the villain"?

One of them.  She's a monotheist, and those types are always evil.  Her deity has a Cthulhu-esque name.  Her goal is to burn everyone.  She also prolonged the war, which worked against her stated goals.

[Neil]

Also, the actor who plays the Greatjon isn't in this season, which will just completely fuckup the entire Red Wedding.   

But not really.  At all.

[Neil]

Did anyone else think this episode looked amazing?  The details on the costume and the lighting just seemed beyond anything they were capable of in the first season, and beyond the second season as well. Though I wish some of that money had gone in to the fight at Fist of the First Men. 

I hope less money goes into "fights" and more into story.

I am pretty much all set with my lifetime quota of fantasy swordfights. Unless the fight has some particular importance to actual characters (Jaime-Ned, Jon-Qorrin, etc., etc) another 10 minutes of people chopping each other up is of little interest to me, and those are precious minutes that could be telling the story.

No kidding.  For an alleged sophisticate, that was an incredibly Tim-esque statement by Spellus.  Honestly, the Fist of the First Men isn't really important, except that it happens.  There are no major characters even involved.

[Queequeg]

You really think Melisandre is "the villain"?

One of them.  She's a monotheist, and those types are always evil.  Her deity has a Cthulhu-esque name.  Her goal is to burn everyone.  She also prolonged the war, which worked against her stated goals.

Yeah, but as a worshiper of a fire deity with actual magical power who can bring back the dead she's probably the best ally the people of Westeros have against the Others.   TBH I get the impression that her religion is right about the big stuff , even if her precious Lord of Light isn't nearly as benevolent as Ahura Mazda. 

[Queequeg]

No kidding.  For an alleged sophisticate, that was an incredibly Tim-esque statement by Spellus.  Honestly, the Fist of the First Men isn't really important, except that it happens.  There are no major characters even involved.

I thought it was one of the more memorable action sequences in the novels.    The entire retreat is also pretty great.