Game of Thrones begins....

[garbon]

Maybe it could be if you took enough narcotics. Or if you'd gone without sleep for 3 days. 

[Martinus]

The Ironmen ruled the Riverlands.  As Lords who took what they wanted from the people. Not with the King of the Ironmen also having Rivermen vassals.

Totally incorrect.  I'm not sure why you would fabricate easily-disproven "facts" like this, unless you just don't want to admit that you are wrong.  Edmyn Tully is specifically noted as a vassal of Harren the Black who turned against him when Aegon arrived. 

There's just no way they'd let mainlanders bend the knee and accept the Kingdom of the Iron Islands as their land- not in any significant numbers anyway. Thats the mainlander way of doing things, not the Iron way.

Argument by assertion, and contrary to what the books themselves say.  The Riverlords had, indeed, bent the knee to the iron Crown and in significant numbers.

That being said, the King of the Iron Islands did conquer the Riverlands from the Storm King. It wasn't inherited by him or given to him by anyone. They also only held it for the duration of the rule of three Kings (from Harwyn Hardhand until Harren the Black) and that was several hundreds years ago, so they wouldn't necessarily see the Riverlands as rightfully theirs.

[grumbler]

That being said, the King of the Iron Islands did conquer the Riverlands from the Storm King. It wasn't inherited by him or given to him by anyone. They also only held it for the duration of the rule of three Kings (from Harwyn Hardhand until Harren the Black) and that was several hundreds years ago, so they wouldn't necessarily see the Riverlands as rightfully theirs.

I don't think they see the North as rightfully theirs, either.  The issue isn't "what do they see as "rightfully theirs"'  so much as it is "why are they attacking the North instead of allying with it?"  The answer is that the North is the most vulnerable land, not that the Iron Islanders refuse to conquer the Riverlands because it would land them with "snooty southern vassals."

The Iron islanders are opportunists.  They will take anything not nailed down, but will pay the iron price themselves only when necessary, and only as much of the price as is necessary.

[Berkut]

Indeed - the "Iron Price" is not about honour or integrity or even being a bad ass - it is simply about NOT being merchants/farmers/producers.

They are reavers, pure and simple. They are quite content reaving from women and children, and in fact prefer to do so, if the men are off somewhere else. They chose to go after the north for exactly that reason the northern men are off somewhere else, so the "Iron Price" for their reaving will be as cheap as possible.

Which is really why Theon taking Winterfell kind of made it clear that he was not truly an Ironborn anymore - he didn't really understand the point. The point is not to go take and hold land (although they may do just that if they think nobody will fight to get it back - clearly NOT the case with Winterfell), it is to raid and take slaves, material, and their particular brand of glory.

They are griefers, not conquerors.

[Martinus]

That being said, the King of the Iron Islands did conquer the Riverlands from the Storm King. It wasn't inherited by him or given to him by anyone. They also only held it for the duration of the rule of three Kings (from Harwyn Hardhand until Harren the Black) and that was several hundreds years ago, so they wouldn't necessarily see the Riverlands as rightfully theirs.

I don't think they see the North as rightfully theirs, either.  The issue isn't "what do they see as "rightfully theirs"'  so much as it is "why are they attacking the North instead of allying with it?"  The answer is that the North is the most vulnerable land, not that the Iron Islanders refuse to conquer the Riverlands because it would land them with "snooty southern vassals."

The Iron islanders are opportunists.  They will take anything not nailed down, but will pay the iron price themselves only when necessary, and only as much of the price as is necessary.

I agree with that. It's often difficult to tell what everyone is trying to say after some form of obscure debate has been going for pages.

[Viking]

Indeed - the "Iron Price" is not about honour or integrity or even being a bad ass - it is simply about NOT being merchants/farmers/producers.

They are reavers, pure and simple. They are quite content reaving from women and children, and in fact prefer to do so, if the men are off somewhere else. They chose to go after the north for exactly that reason the northern men are off somewhere else, so the "Iron Price" for their reaving will be as cheap as possible.

Which is really why Theon taking Winterfell kind of made it clear that he was not truly an Ironborn anymore - he didn't really understand the point. The point is not to go take and hold land (although they may do just that if they think nobody will fight to get it back - clearly NOT the case with Winterfell), it is to raid and take slaves, material, and their particular brand of glory.

They are griefers, not conquerors.

Lord Balon rode over him. "The lords are gone south with
the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old
men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one.
Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest
shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make
the folk our thralls and salt wives."

Balon isn't just going to go raiding, he wants to conquer.

Balon's behaviour just does not make sense other than in the desire to redeem his wounded pride, or conquer the north.

[jimmy olsen]

Ratings are good, growing from 9.3 million views last year to 10.4 million this year.

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/04/thrones-keeps-steady-numbers/

[Jacob]

They skipped right over the whole Tickler bit and the march of Gregor Clegane through the Riverlands with Arya in tow.  I'm grateful for that.  it was in some ways the bleakest bit of the book series, and it was bad enough just reading about it.

... and it went on forever too.

[grumbler]

... and it went on forever too.

Agree, but argue that that was one of the reasons it was so effective.  Page after page of horror makes it sure that you realize that this isn't an isolated thing, but rather the new condition of things.

I skipped that whole part when i reread the books prior to reading the fifth book.  Just too grim.

[jimmy olsen]

[Josquius]

Argument by assertion,

Saw this and zoned out. Grumblering....

[grumbler]

Argument by assertion,

Saw this and zoned out. Grumblering....

  Yeah, you'd want to avoid seeing the mention of argument by assertion, yourself.  ReTyr'd.

[The Larch]

http://imgur.com/gallery/psVBH

[Viking]

http://imgur.com/gallery/psVBH

"Always going on about Climate Change." 

[Razgovory]

Argument by assertion,

Saw this and zoned out. Grumblering....

  Yeah, you'd want to avoid seeing the mention of argument by assertion, yourself.  ReTyr'd.

He's simply ignoring you.  I thought you were down with that.