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Game of Thrones begins....

Started by Josquius, April 04, 2011, 03:39:14 AM

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Solmyr

Quote from: The Larch on June 20, 2011, 01:39:27 PM
BTW, here's some Targaryen-Stark bonding as if they were in a Tommy Hillfiger ad:

Viserys/Dany/Robb slashfic incoming?

Berkut

What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Habbaku

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Emphasizing his betrayal, I guess.  As if sacking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon weren't enough.
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Josephus

Quote from: Solmyr on June 20, 2011, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 01:25:33 PM

I suspect it was "Oh shit, we haven't reached our tits/pussy shot quota for this episode yet!"

They didn't actually show Roz's tits or pussy in that scene, though, which is a first.

Uh...yes, briefly. She turned around.
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

viper37

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Quote from: Habbaku on June 20, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
Emphasizing his betrayal, I guess.  As if sacking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon weren't enough.

To emphasize that the (coming) betrayal is not his first choice, but he acts on his father's order/advice to profit from a situation where Stark is weak.

Right now, Stark is strong.  But I suppose there will be a point where Robb Stark and his armies are either defeated in battle or split over a disagreement, resulting in a position of weakness against the Lannisters or another party to the game.
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Solmyr

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Why not? At this point in the story Theon is quite loyal to Robb.

Zoupa

Quote from: viper37 on June 20, 2011, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Quote from: Habbaku on June 20, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
Emphasizing his betrayal, I guess.  As if sacking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon weren't enough.

To emphasize that the (coming) betrayal is not his first choice, but he acts on his father's order/advice to profit from a situation where Stark is weak.

Right now, Stark is strong.  But I suppose there will be a point where Robb Stark and his armies are either defeated in battle or split over a disagreement, resulting in a position of weakness against the Lannisters or another party to the game.

Huh I thought you hadn't read the books?

Slargos

Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 20, 2011, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Quote from: Habbaku on June 20, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
Emphasizing his betrayal, I guess.  As if sacking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon weren't enough.

To emphasize that the (coming) betrayal is not his first choice, but he acts on his father's order/advice to profit from a situation where Stark is weak.

Right now, Stark is strong.  But I suppose there will be a point where Robb Stark and his armies are either defeated in battle or split over a disagreement, resulting in a position of weakness against the Lannisters or another party to the game.

Huh I thought you hadn't read the books?

The thread IS pretty heavy with spoilers and Habbaku already said in plain text there was going to be a betrayal from Theon.   :hmm:

Grey Fox

Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 20, 2011, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Quote from: Habbaku on June 20, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
Emphasizing his betrayal, I guess.  As if sacking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon weren't enough.

To emphasize that the (coming) betrayal is not his first choice, but he acts on his father's order/advice to profit from a situation where Stark is weak.

Right now, Stark is strong.  But I suppose there will be a point where Robb Stark and his armies are either defeated in battle or split over a disagreement, resulting in a position of weakness against the Lannisters or another party to the game.

Huh I thought you hadn't read the books?

He hasn't. Probably did like me & read a couple wiki.
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HVC

i thought he was reading it now?

i figured theon would betray him because he's a kidnapped kid and would see his chance to redeem himself.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
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Berkut

Quote from: Solmyr on June 20, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Why not? At this point in the story Theon is quite loyal to Robb.


Because no matter how much he likes Robb, there is no question that he is a Greyjoy. His swearing to Robb in that manner simply does not make any sense. And there is no question that Theon is not aware of his status as a hostage.

I think this is an example of where the writers could not stand to leave well enough alone - an example of where they decided their viewers were too stupid to appreciate the betrayal unless they made it REALLY REALLY REALLY clear for them.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Slargos

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 20, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Why not? At this point in the story Theon is quite loyal to Robb.


Because no matter how much he likes Robb, there is no question that he is a Greyjoy. His swearing to Robb in that manner simply does not make any sense. And there is no question that Theon is not aware of his status as a hostage.

I think this is an example of where the writers could not stand to leave well enough alone - an example of where they decided their viewers were too stupid to appreciate the betrayal unless they made it REALLY REALLY REALLY clear for them.

I will admit that it was a while since I read the books, but from what I can recall from the books [and this is certainly what they wanted to project in the show] Theon feels more like a member of the household than a hostage. He keeps getting reminded of his status by the haughty Starks however, and seeds are constantly being sown for his betrayal.

Berkut

Quote from: Slargos on June 20, 2011, 02:59:43 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 20, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Why not? At this point in the story Theon is quite loyal to Robb.


Because no matter how much he likes Robb, there is no question that he is a Greyjoy. His swearing to Robb in that manner simply does not make any sense. And there is no question that Theon is not aware of his status as a hostage.

I think this is an example of where the writers could not stand to leave well enough alone - an example of where they decided their viewers were too stupid to appreciate the betrayal unless they made it REALLY REALLY REALLY clear for them.

I will admit that it was a while since I read the books, but from what I can recall from the books [and this is certainly what they wanted to project in the show] Theon feels more like a member of the household than a hostage. He keeps getting reminded of his status by the haughty Starks however, and seeds are constantly being sown for his betrayal.

Exactly - his loyalty to Robb is the loyalty of a friend. It makes no sense for him to swear his sword to Robb, as Robb is not his Lord. He may very well ally himself to Robb, fight with Robb, but he isn't going to swear to him, anymore than Ned would swear to Robert (before Robert became Kind of course).

He is the heir to House Greyjoy - how could the heir of a Great house swear to the King in the North anyway?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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grumbler

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:57:50 PM
Because no matter how much he likes Robb, there is no question that he is a Greyjoy. His swearing to Robb in that manner simply does not make any sense. And there is no question that Theon is not aware of his status as a hostage.

I think this is an example of where the writers could not stand to leave well enough alone - an example of where they decided their viewers were too stupid to appreciate the betrayal unless they made it REALLY REALLY REALLY clear for them.
Theon sees opportunities for the Greyjoys to improve their position by attacking the Lannisters while they are busy fighting the Starks and others.  Of course, his father and sister see an even more natural opportunity to expand at the expense of the Starks, but Theon is blind to this because of his friendship with Robb.

I think this is an example of you forgetting that Theon did, indeed, agree to throw the weight of the Greyjoys behind Robb.  He went home specifically to muster the Greyjoys against the Lannisterrs.  This is made clear in his discussions with his father.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Slargos

Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 03:09:30 PM
Quote from: Slargos on June 20, 2011, 02:59:43 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 20, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
What was the deal with Theon swearing to Robb? That doesn't even make any sense.

Why not? At this point in the story Theon is quite loyal to Robb.


Because no matter how much he likes Robb, there is no question that he is a Greyjoy. His swearing to Robb in that manner simply does not make any sense. And there is no question that Theon is not aware of his status as a hostage.

I think this is an example of where the writers could not stand to leave well enough alone - an example of where they decided their viewers were too stupid to appreciate the betrayal unless they made it REALLY REALLY REALLY clear for them.

I will admit that it was a while since I read the books, but from what I can recall from the books [and this is certainly what they wanted to project in the show] Theon feels more like a member of the household than a hostage. He keeps getting reminded of his status by the haughty Starks however, and seeds are constantly being sown for his betrayal.

Exactly - his loyalty to Robb is the loyalty of a friend. It makes no sense for him to swear his sword to Robb, as Robb is not his Lord. He may very well ally himself to Robb, fight with Robb, but he isn't going to swear to him, anymore than Ned would swear to Robert (before Robert became Kind of course).

He is the heir to House Greyjoy - how could the heir of a Great house swear to the King in the North anyway?

Again, given how long it's been since I read the books this time I can only speculate on the show itself, but Theon has been pretty enthusiastic about the concept of glory in battle from the getgo and has enthusiastically supported war at every possibility. Here they're all vigorously exclaiming their loyalty to the King of the North and it's not difficult to imagine an impetuous young man being swept along, against strict reason.