Game of Thrones begins....

[katmai]

Yeah thanks you asses.

[Martinus]

Incidentally, I hate how many people view Cersei as this evil monster. Her fate was not better than that of Danny, traded off like a chattel to cement an alliance - only further aggravated by the fact that she already loved someone else at the time and her husband cried out another woman's name on their wedding night - and then proceeded to fuck every whore or wench he would lay his hands on, often in front of her.

Is there any surprise she hates his guts and wants him dead?

[Slargos]

Yeah thanks you asses.

We need a spoiler tag function. White doesn't cut it anymore since the background is slightly offwhite makign the text visible. 

[Martinus]

Well, sorry I assumed that most/all people here read the books. We have been discussing the background quite clearly in my impression - it always weirds me out when there is a 20-pages discussion of some book and film and then suddenly someone cries foul over spoilers. 

[Slargos]

Well, sorry I assumed that most/all people here read the books. We have been discussing the background quite clearly in my impression - it always weirds me out when there is a 20-pages discussion of some book and film and then suddenly someone cries foul over spoilers. 

Agree and Disagree.

Yes, it would be convenient to be able to have a discussion about a book or a series without having to tenderize it for the consumption of the laggers. OTOH, especially in a case like this where the show trails the books by a decade, it is certainly convenient to be able to discuss the show without ruining it for those illiterates who haven't read the books.

[katmai]

Well, sorry I assumed that most/all people here read the books. We have been discussing the background quite clearly in my impression - it always weirds me out when there is a 20-pages discussion of some book and film and then suddenly someone cries foul over spoilers. 

Oh i think most have.

My book reading is kept to non Fiction mostly.
Most current fantasy/sci fi bores me to tears.

[katmai]

I hate that people view Cersei as this evil monster because she hates Robert Baratheon

What nonsense is this, maybe it's because she's a cold hearted bitch, i mean sure that's why you like her Marti.

[Slargos]

I hate that people view Cersei as this evil monster because she hates Robert Baratheon

What nonsense is this, maybe it's because she's a cold hearted bitch, i mean sure that's why you like her Marti.

I was going to reply much the same only using more words to describe her crimes but frankly in this case less is more. Well done. 

[Martinus]

I hate that people view Cersei as this evil monster because she hates Robert Baratheon

What nonsense is this, maybe it's because she's a cold hearted bitch, i mean sure that's why you like her Marti.

I was going to reply much the same only using more words to describe her crimes but frankly in this case less is more. Well done. 

Well, her crimes are largely based in self-preservation and protecting her children. If the truth was out, then not only hers, but also her children's lifes would be forfeit. She is a vicious, ruthless momma-bear protecting her cubs, nothing more.

[Slargos]

Well, her crimes are largely based in self-preservation and protecting her children. If the truth was out, then not only hers, but also her children's lifes would be forfeit. She is a vicious, ruthless momma-bear protecting her cubs, nothing more.

No argument there. I can sympathise with the rationalisation. It is perhaps the most genuine motivation there is.

I still don't like her, any more than I do her brother even after his about-heel. The Lannisters are all pricks, save for the midget.

[Martinus]

To elaborate (SPOILERS).

Her "original crime" is incest. However, genetic issues aside (which are not that severe to begin with), unless there is an element of coercion involved, I don't see how this should be seen as wrong or sinful, not to mention criminal - especially between twin siblings (if there was an age difference a better argument could be made for coercion, but not here).

Then is her crime of "cheating" on her husband. Only that she has no say in her marriage, her husband cries out a different woman's name on their wedding night, while he drunkenly fucks her, and then cheats on her openly anywhere he can. Hardly a crime at all.

Now, the problem is that both of the above non-crimes unfortunately mean that in the oppressive society in which she lives, she and her brother and their children would be dead if the truth was out.

So all her subsequent crimes are based in making sure this truth is not out. So essentially it is self-defense.

If a secret Jew during Holocaust kills someone who threatens to out him and his family to the nazis, would you call this a crime too?

[Martinus]

Well, her crimes are largely based in self-preservation and protecting her children. If the truth was out, then not only hers, but also her children's lifes would be forfeit. She is a vicious, ruthless momma-bear protecting her cubs, nothing more.

No argument there. I can sympathise with the rationalisation. It is perhaps the most genuine motivation there is.

I still don't like her, any more than I do her brother even after his about-heel. The Lannisters are all pricks, save for the midget.

Again, she is ruthless, she is a strong woman and yes, she is warped by her experiences. I kinda have admiration for her, even if I don't like her too much either. But then if anyone who I don't like was a "monster", half of Languish would be monsters.

[Slargos]

To elaborate (SPOILERS).

Her "original crime" is incest. However, genetic issues aside (which are not that severe to begin with), unless there is an element of coercion involved, I don't see how this should be seen as wrong or sinful, not to mention criminal - especially between twin siblings (if there was an age difference a better argument could be made for coercion, but not here).

Then is her crime of "cheating" on her husband. Only that she has no say in her marriage, her husband cries out a different woman's name on their wedding night, while he drunkenly fucks her, and then cheats on her openly anywhere he can. Hardly a crime at all.

Now, the problem is that both of the above non-crimes unfortunately mean that in the oppressive society in which she lives, she and her brother and their children would be dead if the truth was out.

So all her subsequent crimes are based in making sure this truth is not out. So essentially it is self-defense.

If a secret Jew during Holocaust kills someone who threatens to out him and his family to the nazis, would you call this a crime too?

[Sophie Scholl]

  Marti analogies are always so fun to read.

[Slargos]

Marti analogies are always so fun to read.

I thought this one was more or less spot on. The situations are more or less completely analogous.