Game of Thrones begins....

[Martinus]

Great. Now EdAnger is going to make this his avatar. 

[Slargos]

Excellent episode.

"He ran. Not very fast."

Love it. 

[Martinus]

Excellent episode.

"He ran. Not very fast."

Love it. 

Not surprised the Cleganes would be your favourite characters. 

[Slargos]

Excellent episode.

"He ran. Not very fast."

Love it. 

Not surprised the Cleganes would be your favourite characters. 

Gregor, not so much. He's just a monster. Now, Sandor there's some depth to. By far my favourite character in the series.

Thing is, Sandor is set up to look like a bad guy and for most people that's the farthest they will ever look. You don't think, and so you don't see.

Sandor may be one of the most noble characters in the series.

[Martinus]

Meh, I hate that they cut out Catelyn's "Jon Snow, I wish it was you, not Bran" (I paraphrase). I thought that line was important in setting up Catelyn, and they cut it/played down the hatred she has for Snow. 

[Martinus]

I love Summer though. That's a good dire wolf. 

[Slargos]

Meh, I hate that they cut out Catelyn's "Jon Snow, I wish it was you, not Bran" (I paraphrase). I thought that line was important in setting up Catelyn, and they cut it/played down the hatred she has for Snow. 

The show needs to rely on mimics and tone in order to convey thoughts that the books could verbalize. I think the scene between Catelyn and Snow worked very well to set the tone between them. For the same reason I can readily accept the change in the relationship between Drogo and Dany even though it is rather fundamental.

Arya and Sandor stole, I think, this episode. That little girl played the angry "you'll pay for this, mother fuckers" very, very well.

In alles, the acting has been superb thus far. I don't understand the bitching about Sansa, I think she's played the naive Ladyling very well.

[Eddie Teach]

Gregor, not so much. He's just a monster. Now, Sandor there's some depth to. By far my favourite character in the series.

Thing is, Sandor is set up to look like a bad guy and for most people that's the farthest they will ever look. You don't think, and so you don't see.

Sandor may be one of the most noble characters in the series.

I think it's more a case of Sandor is evolving to be less of a bad guy. I think when he was Tywin's hatchetman he *was* a villain, not some tragically misunderstood figure. Course, he lives in a world full of villains.

[Slargos]

Gregor, not so much. He's just a monster. Now, Sandor there's some depth to. By far my favourite character in the series.

Thing is, Sandor is set up to look like a bad guy and for most people that's the farthest they will ever look. You don't think, and so you don't see.

Sandor may be one of the most noble characters in the series.

I think it's more a case of Sandor is evolving to be less of a bad guy. I think when he was Tywin's hatchetman he *was* a villain, not some tragically misunderstood figure. Course, he lives in a world full of villains.

I'll admit it's been a while (a decade? times flies) since I read the first book, but I recall the signs being there quite early.

Yes, Sandor kills people and sometimes seems to enjoy doing it, but I think he has a quite clear moral compass and though we haven't been specifically treated to it early on, the signs have certainly been there.

I think one of the big differences between Sandor and some of the more obvious Heroes is that he doesn't have a Beard, so to speak, in Knighthood.

[Martinus]

Wow, that episode was fucking powerful. Also, some of the best acting from dogs I have ever seen. 

[Eddie Teach]

Yes, Sandor kills people and sometimes seems to enjoy doing it, but I think he has a quite clear moral compass and though we haven't been specifically treated to it early on, the signs have certainly been there.

A clear moral compass doesn't make one a hero if it's not followed.

[Martinus]

Yes, Sandor kills people and sometimes seems to enjoy doing it, but I think he has a quite clear moral compass and though we haven't been specifically treated to it early on, the signs have certainly been there.

A clear moral compass doesn't make one a hero if it's not followed.

I don't think anyone is claiming Sandor is a hero - only that he is not a complete villain. He is an anti-hero, like many characters in the books (the Lannister brothers for example).

[Martinus]

Also, I love how noone is questioning that Lannisters would give a commoner a Valyrian knife to kill Bran. It's one of these moments for which I love GRRM - he takes a red herring cliche and essentially dares the reader to cry foul on the meta level only to later show that he is a better writer than that.

[Slargos]

Also, I love how noone is questioning that Lannisters would give a commoner a Valyrian knife to kill Bran. It's one of these moments for which I love GRRM - he takes a red herring cliche and essentially dares the reader to cry foul on the meta level only to later show that he is a better writer than that.

I forget, what was the significance of that?

[Eddie Teach]

I don't think anyone is claiming Sandor is a hero -

I interpret Slargos' phrase "more obvious heroes" and his claim that Sandor is one of the noblest characters in the series as  such a claim. 

only that he is not a complete villain.

Nobody is claiming otherwise. But he has done many villainous acts in his life- the fact that he regretted them afterwards and in some cases during doesn't change that. His inner character may be somewhat consistent; he has the capacity for both good and evil(as all men do really), but his actions in later books are appreciably more "moral" than they are at the beginning. The change in our perceptions isn't so much Martin revealing more of the character(though that is a small part of it) as it is that Sandor is heeding that compass more, trying to redeem himself. Book 1 Sandor is not a heroic figure. Book 5 Sandor may well be.