Game of Thrones begins....

[Razgovory]

I"m fine with the war of the roses stuff, but if you are going to focus almost exclusively on that, why have ice monsters at all?  It's like the author doesn't know what to do with it.  It's similar to the dragon chick across the sea.  It's an interesting story, but in the first book it has almost no bearing on the rest of the plot.  A few characters make some references to it but that's about it.  As the books go on you can kind of see where he's going with this plot thread, but for the most part it doesn't add a great deal to the main story.  For me, it's a problem of focus.

[Valmy]

I"m fine with the war of the roses stuff, but if you are going to focus almost exclusively on that, why have ice monsters at all?  It's like the author doesn't know what to do with it.  It's similar to the dragon chick across the sea.  It's an interesting story, but in the first book it has almost no bearing on the rest of the plot.  A few characters make some references to it but that's about it.  As the books go on you can kind of see where he's going with this plot thread, but for the most part it doesn't add a great deal to the main story.  For me, it's a problem of focus.

I see it like the black death approaching during the Hundred Years War.  An outside force of nature about to roll over society while the leadership is busy doing their petty noble crap.  They are so distracted by their petty problems they are not able to see the approaching cataclysms of Ice and Fire coming right for them.  I rather like the way he does it in the books because you the reader get caught up in the petty noble rivalries yourself.

[Razgovory]

I"m fine with the war of the roses stuff, but if you are going to focus almost exclusively on that, why have ice monsters at all?  It's like the author doesn't know what to do with it.  It's similar to the dragon chick across the sea.  It's an interesting story, but in the first book it has almost no bearing on the rest of the plot.  A few characters make some references to it but that's about it.  As the books go on you can kind of see where he's going with this plot thread, but for the most part it doesn't add a great deal to the main story.  For me, it's a problem of focus.

I see it like the black death approaching during the Hundred Years War.  An outside force of nature about to roll over society while the leadership is busy doing their petty noble crap.  They are so distracted by their petty problems they are not able to see the approaching cataclysms of Ice and Fire coming right for them.  I rather like the way he does it in the books because you the reader get caught up in the petty noble rivalries yourself.

That's a common theme in Fantasy, but usually the Ice isn't moving at them at the speed of a glacier.

[Siege]

Raz, why are you so full of hatred for the greatest story written since the LOTR?

[Razgovory]

Raz, why are you so full of hatred for the greatest story written since the LOTR?

It's not finished.  If he cut out some of the stuff that doesn't move the plot along he'd be done by now.

[grumbler]

Raz, why are you so full of hatred for the greatest story written since the LOTR?

[crazy canuck]

I"m fine with the war of the roses stuff, but if you are going to focus almost exclusively on that, why have ice monsters at all?  It's like the author doesn't know what to do with it.  It's similar to the dragon chick across the sea.  It's an interesting story, but in the first book it has almost no bearing on the rest of the plot.  A few characters make some references to it but that's about it.  As the books go on you can kind of see where he's going with this plot thread, but for the most part it doesn't add a great deal to the main story.  For me, it's a problem of focus.

It starts out as a back story that comes more to the fore as the books progress.  Not sure what you want.  A simple plot where there is only one theme?

[Josquius]

Raz, why are you so full of hatred for the greatest story written since the LOTR?

It's not finished.  If he cut out some of the stuff that doesn't move the plot along he'd be done by now.

Actually he has the mystical northern front stuff pretty well worked out. He has said that its the political stuff down in Dorne that has had him stumped.

[grumbler]

It starts out as a back story that comes more to the fore as the books progress.  Not sure what you want.  A simple plot where there is only one theme?

there are about ten of these back stories.  That's the problem with the books.  They would be twice as good with half the verbiage.  Not that I am saying they are bad books, but they definitely fall far short of well-written. 

[The Brain]

Fatty can't focus for shit and his books are all over the place. I still enjoyed them a lot, and I don't expect or long for an ending that ties it all together. It's the ride, not the destination.

And I don't give a fuck about the TV series. I will be forced to watch it for social reasons though, but I'm fine with that.

[Faeelin]

I agree with Raz completely.

Even the War of the Roses plot isn't going anywhere. Every time a challenger is defeated, another rises up. Sure, it might make some sense because Westeros was only loosely knit together, but what's the point?

And I'm still bothered by the winter.

[Valmy]

I still enjoyed them a lot, and I don't expect or long for an ending that ties it all together. It's the ride, not the destination.

I agree completely.  It may not be great literature or whatever (and frankly whether it is or not is a matter of supreme indifference) but I really enjoy it.

[crazy canuck]

It starts out as a back story that comes more to the fore as the books progress.  Not sure what you want.  A simple plot where there is only one theme?

there are about ten of these back stories.  That's the problem with the books.  They would be twice as good with half the verbiage.  Not that I am saying they are bad books, but they definitely fall far short of well-written.

I cant think of ten that are equivalent to the ones we have identified.  I can think of three -   The war of the Roses (with all its various branches), Winter is coming, and the return of the Queen.  What other 7 are you thinking of?

[Scipio]

Martin is proof positive that a good editor needs a good editor.  Wild Cards is golden; ASOIAF is turgid.

[Faeelin]

I cant think of ten that are equivalent to the ones we have identified.  I can think of three -   The war of the Roses (with all its various branches), Winter is coming, and the return of the Queen.  What other 7 are you thinking of?

Are you seperating the Stark children? It's not clear why one of them is now becoming a blind assassin, and another one is on some vision quest with the native americans of Westeros.