Game of Thrones begins....

[Admiral Yi]

Only Targaryians can stick their hands in dragons' nostrils, no?

[Barrister]

The only ones they need to convince are Jon and Dany.

[Razgovory]

I wonder if that means Jon will abdicate the title of King in the North in favor of Sansa.  She certainly has more on the ball than Jon, who let's face it, is kind of dumb.

[viper37]

So how do they convince anyone that Jon is really Aegon?

This succession business won't be settled until the White Walkers and Cersei are dealth with.
By this time, whoever is left might not just care anymore who has a legitimate claim to the throne or not.

[Josquius]

So how do they convince anyone that Jon is really Aegon?

It seems like pretty tenuous evidence from the perspective of the noble houses of Westeros. Sounds pretty damn fishy.

The only actual evidence is this "diary" of a High Septon in posession of a disgraced Citadel student and known BFF of Jon Snow, and the word of a crazy crippled boy who happens to be his half brother.

I guess they could find Ned's buddy who was with him, he is a noble at least, albeit some swamp noble who has no real standing, and again, a known friend of House Stark...

Lord Random: "So this Stark kid claims his bastard brother is the rightful king? Ha! A bit coincidental isn't it? If it were up to me to decide who was what I'd split the seven kingdoms amongst my children. Ridiculous."
Bran: "Lord Random....what was your friend's name? The stable boy... the one with whom you were...quite intimate.... the one whom you bent over for every Thursday evening...."
Lord Random: "....what are you talking about...heh.....heh...."
Bran: "You know Lord Random. The one your father sent away to the wall for stealing..... But he didn't really steal did he.... it was all to avoid a scandal..... I wonder if the tree in the forest still has your initials carved into it?...I wonder what would happen if people found out...."
TV show Bran is particularly powerful as he isn't reliant on the trees as book Brain is.



Plus with the way things are going the old order seems set to crack quite a bit.

[HVC]

So how do they convince anyone that Jon is really Aegon?

It seems like pretty tenuous evidence from the perspective of the noble houses of Westeros. Sounds pretty damn fishy.

The only actual evidence is this "diary" of a High Septon in posession of a disgraced Citadel student and known BFF of Jon Snow, and the word of a crazy crippled boy who happens to be his half brother.

I guess they could find Ned's buddy who was with him, he is a noble at least, albeit some swamp noble who has no real standing, and again, a known friend of House Stark...

Once he's on a dragon he doesn't have to convince anyone. like Cersei once said, "sometimes power is power"

[HVC]

I wonder if that means Jon will abdicate the title of King in the North in favor of Sansa.  She certainly has more on the ball than Jon, who let's face it, is kind of dumb.

we already abdicated as king of the north. or at least demoted himself down to Warden. But yeah, he'll probably give it to Sansa (who will probably marry gendry)

[Berkut]

So how do they convince anyone that Jon is really Aegon?

It seems like pretty tenuous evidence from the perspective of the noble houses of Westeros. Sounds pretty damn fishy.

The only actual evidence is this "diary" of a High Septon in posession of a disgraced Citadel student and known BFF of Jon Snow, and the word of a crazy crippled boy who happens to be his half brother.

I guess they could find Ned's buddy who was with him, he is a noble at least, albeit some swamp noble who has no real standing, and again, a known friend of House Stark...

Once he's on a dragon he doesn't have to convince anyone. like Cersei once said, "sometimes power is power"

In which case it doesn't matter that he is the righful heir at all.

It either matters, in which case it is interesting to think how they will convince everyone, or it doesn't, in which case who cares that he is Rhaegar son and the entire thing is pointless.

Of course it DOES matter, legitimacy is critically important in these societies, and the show and books have made that very clear.

[HVC]

it'll matter to Dani in that it'll show her character. is she trying to get the crown because it's rightfully hers, or because she wants power. The north should side with Jon (if it becomes an issue), dorn is effectively leaderless as is the high garden. the vale will side with sansa who will side with jon (even if only to get the warden of the north title). Doesn't matter who the lannisters pick because they're losing the war. its a moot point as to whether the legitimacy is believed, I think.

[Admiral Yi]

The Vale is effectively leaderless as well.

[HVC]

true, but they have robin and the general dude who I would assume is now the in charge until robin comes of age. So i would assume they follow Sansa's lead.

[Admiral Yi]

Just struck me we haven't heard anything about the crusty Riverlands uncle in ages.  Rumblefish or whatever.

[Jacob]

In which case it doesn't matter that he is the righful heir at all.

It either matters, in which case it is interesting to think how they will convince everyone, or it doesn't, in which case who cares that he is Rhaegar son and the entire thing is pointless.

Of course it DOES matter, legitimacy is critically important in these societies, and the show and books have made that very clear.

I tend to think that the way it works is that there's some threshold to pass which requires a combination of claim and power, and having a strong hand in one can compensate for a weaker hand in the other.

So, say, they can construct a somewhat convincing claim "hey look, he's not harmed by dragon fire, here's an old book that says it's him, in this person we can sort of agree would know says he's the true heir" that's not going to convince very many people if he has no armies and no support from anyone powerful. It'll convince a lot more people if it's backed by a powerful personal army as well as many other nobles.

A flimsy almost bald-faced fabricated claim will be accepted if it's convenient to save any given power-player's hide and/or advance their agenda. But  someone with a flimsy claim will be more vulnerable later, if things turn against them.

[HVC]

was it confirmed the blackfish had a second miraculous escape?

[HVC]

In which case it doesn't matter that he is the righful heir at all.

It either matters, in which case it is interesting to think how they will convince everyone, or it doesn't, in which case who cares that he is Rhaegar son and the entire thing is pointless.

Of course it DOES matter, legitimacy is critically important in these societies, and the show and books have made that very clear.

I tend to think that the way it works is that there's some threshold to pass which requires a combination of claim and power, and having a strong hand in one can compensate for a weaker hand in the other.

So, say, they can construct a somewhat convincing claim "hey look, he's not harmed by dragon fire, here's an old book that says it's him, in this person we can sort of agree would know says he's the true heir" that's not going to convince very many people if he has no armies and no support from anyone powerful. It'll convince a lot more people if it's backed by a powerful personal army as well as many other nobles.

A flimsy almost bald-faced fabricated claim will be accepted if it's convenient to save any given power-player's hide and/or advance their agenda. But  someone with a flimsy claim will be more vulnerable later, if things turn against them.

Even Robert (who has a flimsy claim from his grandmother or great grandmother) told Ned he could have had the crown if he had sat on the throne in the first season/book.