News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Game of Thrones begins....

Started by Josquius, April 04, 2011, 03:39:14 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Larch

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2017, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2017, 01:59:03 AM
Isn't the whole point of using Dothraki that they can move quickly through hostile territory?  How are they supposed to get huge lumbering carts of grain back to Dragonstone?

They're only a few miles from the sea.

???

I'm confused about geography then I thought they were somewhere in the middle of Highgarden and King's Landing.

The episode begins just as they leave Highgarden, but the battle is already close to King's Landing.

grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2017, 10:06:01 AM
We'll see.
Certainly in the books I can recall it often being said that Sansa is the last Stark and all.
It's a problem that I've long had with the series, I believe I mentioned it earlier in the thread, that except for the Lannisport Lannisters and the Karstarks you never hear anything of Cadet branches, the Lannisters are utter freaks from the fact that there is an uncle and cousins.
Even with the Freys you don't hear of anything beyond Walder's descendants.
About the only time I can remember complicated and realistic family stuff happening is in  the Vale with Harry the Heir (removed from the series).
Would be nice if they handle it in a realistic "Here is third cousin twice removed Geoff Tyrell" but more likely we'll see a completely unrelated named character getting The Reach, if anyone.

You won't hear of such relatives unless they are important to the story.  The show has already cast the new head of House Frey, so clearly there were relatives of Walder not present when Arya poisoned the wine.   I don't think it fair to criticize the show for not showing "complicated and realistic family stuff" that isn't related to the plot or character development.  The show doesn't have the luxury of throwaway moments when each minute of show costs over $100,000 to produce.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: The Larch on August 08, 2017, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2017, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2017, 01:59:03 AM
Isn't the whole point of using Dothraki that they can move quickly through hostile territory?  How are they supposed to get huge lumbering carts of grain back to Dragonstone?

They're only a few miles from the sea.
???

I'm confused about geography then I thought they were somewhere in the middle of Highgarden and King's Landing.

The episode begins just as they leave Highgarden, but the battle is already close to King's Landing.

Based on what we saw in the show, they are near Bitterbridge, far from the sea.  The land is pretty arid, which seems to be true of the portions of the Reach east of the Mander River.  At the same time, they are on a road near a river, which is true of the main road from Highgarden to King's Landing only near Bitterbridge (where the highway crossed the Mander).  It is possible that the water we see is some lake not on the maps, but it certainly isn't near King's Landing, because that highway passed through about 100 miles of forest (the Kingswood) before it gets to King's Landing.

The idea that the Dothraki cannot escort a convoy to some port friendly to Danyris seems odd to me.  The fact that the Dothraki can move fast does not seem to me to imply that they cannot move slowly.  After all, they are a nomadic people.  Surely they have baggage trains in their own lands, just like horse nomads in the history of actual Earth.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

The Minsky Moment

Highgarden to King's Landing is 760 miles according to some internet nerd.  Assume for the sake of argument there they were more than halfway there - about 300 miles from the coast (and likely more since it would have to be a friendly port some distance from KL).  Mongols could cover 100 miles a day - that's 3 days to the coast if not weighed down by an elaborate baggage train.  But heavy carts could probably cover no more than 25 miles per day - that's 12 days.  A significant difference given that the Dothraki are Dani's only available military force at this point - lacking any allies and with her infantry many miles away.  Consider for example who or what is defending Dragonstone at a time when the Cersei-Euron alliance controls the sea . . .
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Larch

In the episode it was said that they were within a day's march of KL.

The Minsky Moment

Ok - where's the nearest safe port for Dani then?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Habbaku

#7971
Plotport is just a transition away.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on August 08, 2017, 10:37:58 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2017, 10:06:01 AM
We'll see.
Certainly in the books I can recall it often being said that Sansa is the last Stark and all.
It's a problem that I've long had with the series, I believe I mentioned it earlier in the thread, that except for the Lannisport Lannisters and the Karstarks you never hear anything of Cadet branches, the Lannisters are utter freaks from the fact that there is an uncle and cousins.
Even with the Freys you don't hear of anything beyond Walder's descendants.
About the only time I can remember complicated and realistic family stuff happening is in  the Vale with Harry the Heir (removed from the series).
Would be nice if they handle it in a realistic "Here is third cousin twice removed Geoff Tyrell" but more likely we'll see a completely unrelated named character getting The Reach, if anyone.

You won't hear of such relatives unless they are important to the story.  The show has already cast the new head of House Frey, so clearly there were relatives of Walder not present when Arya poisoned the wine.   I don't think it fair to criticize the show for not showing "complicated and realistic family stuff" that isn't related to the plot or character development.  The show doesn't have the luxury of throwaway moments when each minute of show costs over $100,000 to produce.
The books however have no such excuse.
██████
██████
██████

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Habbaku on August 08, 2017, 12:05:10 PM
Plotport is just a transition away.

Right
The bigger issue is that the entire strategy makes no sense.  The most "humane" way to fight a war is end it fast and quick if you can.  That means go straight to King's Landing.  That doesn't work with the story though.  But the idea that attacking King's Landing would turn Westerosis away from her is pretty silly.  Aegon was a foreign invader who used dragons to burn castles, and that was not obstacle to establishing a centuries-long dynasty.  Danaerys' opponent just blew up the cathedral and took down a couple city wards and then allied herself to a crazed notorious pirate, that didn't stop an old school lord like Tarly from sticking by the rather tarnished crown.  Once Cersei fell the lords would come in line pretty quick.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

viper37

Quote from: grumbler on August 08, 2017, 08:36:58 AM
That had someone do something dumb, like spar with edged weapons or burn up supply trains, for the visuals. 
I don't think it was strictly for visuals.  Arya wanted everyone to know she could take care of herself, she wasn't just that little girl who left King's Landing hiding from everyone 6 years ago.  What better way than the spar with real weapons against one of the toughest sword bearer of Westeros?  Practice swords would not have made the point.  This did.  You don't mess with Aria Arya.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

#7975
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2017, 12:52:20 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 08, 2017, 12:05:10 PM
Plotport is just a transition away.

Right
The bigger issue is that the entire strategy makes no sense.  The most "humane" way to fight a war is end it fast and quick if you can.  That means go straight to King's Landing.  That doesn't work with the story though.  But the idea that attacking King's Landing would turn Westerosis away from her is pretty silly.  Aegon was a foreign invader who used dragons to burn castles, and that was not obstacle to establishing a centuries-long dynasty.  Danaerys' opponent just blew up the cathedral and took down a couple city wards and then allied herself to a crazed notorious pirate, that didn't stop an old school lord like Tarly from sticking by the rather tarnished crown.  Once Cersei fell the lords would come in line pretty quick.

Aegon had to burn a lot of people and he had a massive army at his back.  Dani's force are considerably smaller, judging by what we know.  He had 2 sisters, each riding a dragon.  He was already lord of Dragonstone and had a foothold on the continent.  He didn't have a murderous father who triggered a rebellion by burning people 20 odd years before...  Also, it wasn't a united kingdom back them it was 7 independant kingdoms, IIRC.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Tamas

FYI guys, it's a made-up world.

Habbaku

Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2017, 12:28:01 PM
The books however have no such excuse.

There are plenty of side-branches mentioned in the books as well. I think you're just forgetting about them. The Tyrells have two sons that didn't make it into the show. The Lannisters have a not insignificant amount of "other" Lannisters that aren't in the main line. The lines that are really lacking are the Arryns (but that's because of Jon marrying Lysa, and they still have Harry as you mentioned), and the Baratheons. The lack of extra Starks can be explained by the seeming tradition of Stark extra sons joining the Night's Watch.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Solmyr

So, ideas on how and when Littlefinger gets fucked?

Habbaku

Probably by Arya's new dagger near the end of this season or middle of next. Bran seems like he might spill the beans to his sisters about Littlefinger's betrayals.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien