Game of Thrones begins....

[katmai]

the porto-canuck is right, as much as it pains me to admit, that is just the two dead Sand snakes. Theon's sister and the other two Dornish aren't shown killed at end of episode.

[grumbler]

the porto-canuck is right, as much as it pains me to admit, that is just the two dead Sand snakes. Theon's sister and the other two Dornish aren't shown killed at end of episode.

Weird that they would have Euron bothering to display the dead bodies of two people almost no one in the fleet would know, but it certainly makes more sense from a story line to have Ellaria captured (as i noted above before the season started).  Cersei's gotta show how evil she is somehow.

[Malicious Intent]

I was sure Euron was going to capture Yara and Ellaria and let Cersei do her torture thing.  I like it better this way.  Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were the worst characters in the show, but just seeing them all killed was enough for me.  Seeing them tortured might have made me pity them, and I didn't want to do that.  Yara as a character won't be missed, either.

Ellaria and her daughter were captured and cersei will torture them (probably make the mother watch her daughter die* as payback for killin cersei's daughter). Unless I missed something. The pirates took them up the stairs.


*unless bronn saves the daughter because of his old crush, but I doubt it.

Maybe Cersei will kill mother and daughter in a way reminiscent of the death of Brandon and Rickard Stark. Would probably give Jaime further flashbacks to Aerys' rule.

[HVC]

I was actually think the same thing. Maybe she's developed a thing for fire since making the  sept go boom.

[HVC]

the porto-canuck is right, as much as it pains me to admit, that is just the two dead Sand snakes. Theon's sister and the other two Dornish aren't shown killed at end of episode.

You know you love me

[viper37]

I was sure Euron was going to capture Yara and Ellaria and let Cersei do her torture thing.  I like it better this way.  Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were the worst characters in the show, but just seeing them all killed was enough for me.  Seeing them tortured might have made me pity them, and I didn't want to do that.  Yara as a character won't be missed, either.

Ellaria and her daughter were captured and cersei will torture them (probably make the mother watch her daughter die* as payback for killin cersei's daughter). Unless I missed something. The pirates took them up the stairs.


*unless bronn saves the daughter because of his old crush, but I doubt it.

Maybe Cersei will kill mother and daughter in a way reminiscent of the death of Brandon and Rickard Stark. Would probably give Jaime further flashbacks to Aerys' rule.

and that would trigger her end, as the nobles rally behind Dorne, as they did with the Stark and Baratheon.

[crazy canuck]

Ellaria and her daughter were captured and cersei will torture them (probably make the mother watch her daughter die* as payback for killin cersei's daughter). Unless I missed something. The pirates took them up the stairs.


*unless bronn saves the daughter because of his old crush, but I doubt it.

The episode ends with Theon looking up at the bowsprit of his ship and seeing his sister hanged and Ellaria impaled, unless those were supposed to be two other people who looked to me to be dressed just like we had last seen Yara and Ellaria.

You should probably watch that scene again.  It is the two sand snakes, one hanging from her whip and the other impaled.

A very disappointing episode.  The best of the Iron Born fleet destroyed in a short night battle by a fleet that was hastily built and manned by the remnants who were left. 

the porto-canuck is right, as much as it pains me to admit, that is just the two dead Sand snakes. Theon's sister and the other two Dornish aren't shown killed at end of episode.

Weird that they would have Euron bothering to display the dead bodies of two people almost no one in the fleet would know, but it certainly makes more sense from a story line to have Ellaria captured (as i noted above before the season started).  Cersei's gotta show how evil she is somehow.

The fleet is destroyed, so that isn't the reason.  The display was probably for Ellaria.

[HVC]

I think that's only half the fleet, or a portion there of, since greyworm, the unsullied, and dothraki are also heading to casterly rock. Still a big blow, and I wonder what will happen in dorn since the new leadership that killed the old leadership is now dead or captured.

and I don't think the second fleet, hastily built though it was (then again time is a bit nebulous on this show) was manned by the dregs. I think that yara's crew stole the original ships (she had her own raiding party) but the nobles of the iron island sided with Euron so he probably had the better and more numerous sailors/pirates, over all.

[Razgovory]

Presumably Dragonstone could be besieged now.

[grumbler]

You should probably watch that scene again.  It is the two sand snakes, one hanging from her whip and the other impaled.

I watched it multiple times.  They never show faces, as I mentioned, but the two are dressed like Ellaria and Yara (though also like Nymeria and Obara) and the show makes a point of showing a reaction shot as Theon sees them.  You should probably watch that scene again.

A very disappointing episode.  The best of the Iron Born fleet destroyed in a short night battle by a fleet that was hastily built and manned by the remnants who were left.

If you didn't like it, it must be pretty good.  You are a reliable antigauge of show quality. 

That wasn't a short battle, by the way.  It took weeks and big bucks to shoot and edit and had quite a bit of screen time.  The whole "thousand ship fleet" bit by Euron is absurd, of course.  That was discussed with here before the season started.  The conclusion was that ships are built at the speed the plot requires.

The fleet is destroyed, so that isn't the reason.  The display was probably for Ellaria.

Ellaria was taken on deck and would have seen the corpses there.  Besides, they weren't even her daughters, so the effect seems misplaced if it was supposed to somehow dismay Ellaria.  The whole bowsprit decoration bit seems misplaced and overdone.  It may have simply been a bit of misdirection for the viewer.

[grumbler]

I think that's only half the fleet, or a portion there of, since greyworm, the unsullied, and dothraki are also heading to casterly rock. Still a big blow, and I wonder what will happen in dorn since the new leadership that killed the old leadership is now dead or captured.

I think the Dothraki are still with Dani, and only the Unsullied are going to Casterly Rock. 

I suspect we won't see Dorne again.  It naver made any sense that the mistress of a former prince and his bastard daughters would ever get control of the place to begin with (they have no legitimacy and are guilty of double regicide to boot), so the question would become, if someone takes over Dorne (and there are always heirs, no matter how distant), "why didn't they take over Dorne when the Martells were killed?"  I suspect the showrunners are quite aware of how badly they bungled the whole Dorne plotline, and will just let it go rather than making things worse.

and I don't think the second fleet, hastily built though it was (then again time is a bit nebulous on this show) was manned by the dregs. I think that yara's crew stole the original ships (she had her own raiding party) but the nobles of the iron island sided with Euron so he probably had the better and more numerous sailors/pirates, over all.

Quite.  Yara only offered Dani one hundred ships, so Euron quite outnumbered them (even if he didn't actually have "one thousand ships) and, as you say, had the vast majority of the Ironborn with him.

[Josquius]

So many misleading cuts to new scenes

[grumbler]

The showrunners seriously DO NOT LIKE soup.  Last week they cut from images of diarrhea to images of soup, and this week it was from images of pus to images of soup.  The American Soup Council is going to go after their scalps!

[crazy canuck]

You should probably watch that scene again.  It is the two sand snakes, one hanging from her whip and the other impaled.

I watched it multiple times.  They never show faces, as I mentioned, but the two are dressed like Ellaria and Yara (though also like Nymeria and Obara) a.

Your powers of perception may not be as keen as they once were back when you first sighted the Persian fleet at the battle of Salamis.  The face of the sand snake that was hung by the neck was visible in profile. But even if you missed that, she is being strung up by her whip - the thing that was being used to choke her in the last scene we saw her in.  The second impaled one has her face away from the camera, but her hair his clearly visible and that is enough to make the identification.  But even if you missed that, she is impaled in the same way as the last scene we saw her.

That wasn't a short battle, by the way.  It took weeks and big bucks to shoot and edit and had quite a bit of screen time.  The whole "thousand ship fleet" bit by Euron is absurd, of course.  That was discussed with here before the season started.  The conclusion was that ships are built at the speed the plot requires.

It may have take weeks to shoot but they didn't get their money's worth.  You are the naval expert, so I am wondering how you feel about a battle consisting of the flag ship of the enemy fleet magically locating the flag of the Iron Born, in the dark, in the middle of a large fleet, and without any warning from any of the screening vessels -  closing, boarding and sailing away with their prize.

If they were going to invest so much time and money to the battle they should have done a better job writing the script. 

It may have simply been a bit of misdirection for the viewer.

Well, they certainly misdirected you.  But I think that was unintentional

I suspect we won't see Dorne again. 

It is unclear whether the battle occurred while on the way to Dorne or after the Dornish troops had already been picked up.  If it is the former it is hard to imagine that an army of one of the seven kingdoms will not be engaged in some way.

I think that's only half the fleet, or a portion there of, since greyworm, the unsullied, and dothraki are also heading to casterly rock. Still a big blow, and I wonder what will happen in dorn since the new leadership that killed the old leadership is now dead or captured.

and I don't think the second fleet, hastily built though it was (then again time is a bit nebulous on this show) was manned by the dregs. I think that yara's crew stole the original ships (she had her own raiding party) but the nobles of the iron island sided with Euron so he probably had the better and more numerous sailors/pirates, over all.

Good points, but I don't think the Iron Born fleet was split, rather the unsullied went of the part of the fleet that was not comprised of the Iron Born ships.

On reflection I think you are right about the quality of the second fleet.  But still magically finding and the flag in the dark in the middle of the fleet, without any warning, is a bit much.

[grumbler]

Your powers of perception may not be as keen as they once were back when you first sighted the Persian fleet at the battle of Salamis.  The face of the sand snake that was hung by the neck was visible in profile. But even if you missed that, she is being strung up by her whip - the thing that was being used to choke her in the last scene we saw her in.  The second impaled one has her face away from the camera, but her hair his clearly visible and that is enough to make the identification.  But even if you missed that, she is impaled in the same way as the last scene we saw her.

This is mere post-hoc rationalization.  You couldn't tell the difference between a rope and a whip at that distance.  The face was not in profile, it was hidden by hair (hair that was the same length as Yara's, and much longer than Nymeria's).  As for Obara, when she is left on the bowsprit, her hair is loose, while she wore it in a ponytail while alive (Ellaria wore hers loose, just like the figure on the bowsprit).  Her corpse is also now dressed in a yellow gown, while she was wearing dark leather armor when she was killed.

It may have take weeks to shoot but they didn't get their money's worth.  You are the naval expert, so I am wondering how you feel about a battle consisting of the flag ship of the enemy fleet magically locating the flag of the Iron Born, in the dark, in the middle of a large fleet, and without any warning from any of the screening vessels -  closing, boarding and sailing away with their prize.

Magical dragons and zombies are okay with you, but finding the fleet flagship is too unrealistic for you?    Okay.  There is no logical response to your complaint.

 

Well, they certainly misdirected you.  But I think that was unintentional

As noted above, the whole scene doesn't make any sense given that that is Obara and Nymeria.  There was no reason at all for Euron to single them out for a display to Theon or anyone else, and hairstyles and clothing changed.  I'm sure we will find out the reason for this (or discover that there was none) sooner or later.

It is unclear whether the battle occurred while on the way to Dorne or after the Dornish troops had already been picked up.  If it is the former it is hard to imagine that an army of one of the seven kingdoms will not be engaged in some way.

Given the lack of Dornish commanders and troops on the flagship, it was clearly on the way to Dorne.

We may see a Dornish army, but I doubt we will see Dorne.  What would be the point?

On reflection I think you are right about the quality of the second fleet.  But still magically finding and the flag in the dark in the middle of the fleet, without any warning, is a bit much.

I wonder where the flagship of a medieval fleet would be?    Maybe at the front, where everyone can see the flag?

Hey!

Maybe that's why it is called the FLAGship!  Because it has a big flag on it so the other ships know which ship to follow!

I notice that you completely miss the real absurd part about the start of that battle:  that there are a million lanterns scattered all around the Ironborn ships (actually, it is so so we can see the actors, naturally).  No real wooden ship would allow that much fire around, untended.