Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Tamas]

well yeah, altoughI almost never see that kind of shitstorm.

What I do, is just about give up on building buildings. I always keep around a thousand golds in the treasury, so when something this horrible happens, I get to send a merc überstack against the faction leader.

Which is kind of lame BTW. the strongest guy should lead a faction in war. Imprisoning 5 Dukes because I defeated a single-province count FTL

[garbon]

To Marti - I think Viking highlights why people often ask for a loyalist faction. AI is so gung-ho on joining factions that you need a loyalist one as a placeholder for those not inclined to mischief.

[Viking]

well yeah, altoughI almost never see that kind of shitstorm.

What I do, is just about give up on building buildings. I always keep around a thousand golds in the treasury, so when something this horrible happens, I get to send a merc überstack against the faction leader.

Which is kind of lame BTW. the strongest guy should lead a faction in war. Imprisoning 5 Dukes because I defeated a single-province count FTL

That doesn't really work either. Since when the revolt happens all my dukes are in revolt by the time I arrive at the revolt leaders lands (usually). There are only two ways to win this war.

1 - capture the revolt leader in battle. Note, if you exterminate his army without capturing him this becomes impossible.

2 - kill the pretender. I liked your suggestion of assassinating him by plot once he is imprisoned. I haven't tried that and don't really know if it will work.

No monarch can fight all his vassals at once. I have only won these kinds of war the old fashoned way a few times and in both cases most of my dukes were imprisoned or fresh minted.

The reason that winning the war is impossible is that the bulk of my army has deserted by the time I start sieging their capital and gone up in revolt. At this point I go from a rich and powerful lord outnumbering the rebels 3-1 or 2-1 to a pathetic loser outnumbered 5-1 and with all my provinces under siege and for some reason my control of their capital counts for less war score than their occupation of a imprisoned dukes vassal.

There are some serious problems with the war score ticker (it doesn't tick for the king) and with the membership in the war (The king's vassals don't seem to be at war or the fact that they are at war doesn't restrict them as wars normally do).

[Viking]

To Marti - I think Viking highlights why people often ask for a loyalist faction. AI is so gung-ho on joining factions that you need a loyalist one as a placeholder for those not inclined to mischief.

I think a Loyalist faction would be nice, if only to force the AI to pick who they prefer. Right now the choice seems to be I don't like king, I will join first and every anti king faction I can. Usually there are three factions running against me at all times

1 - a pretender of some sort with all the dukes that are under +25 relations in it
2 - a reduce realm laws faction with all the dukes in my de jure kingdom with under +25 relations in it
3 - an independence faction with all the dukes outside my de jure kingdom with under +25 relations in it

- plus counts

as soon as the revolt starts even the loyalist dukes join the revolt.. historically they also switched sides. I'd like to see a feature where if I capture a revolting duke I can force his forces out of the war or make him swear to be on my side in it.. but I'd settle for all my dukes immediately forgetting their feudal obligations and centuries of tradition to join the first greek speaking fifth cousin to say "I'd like to be king" in revolt.

plus, with regards to plots, the one I'd like to see is the
Plot to die “In my own bed, at the age of 80 with a bellyful of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock.

If anything medieval lords were quite uninterested in overthrowing the king, it sets a bad example for their own vassals and peasants. They were, like libertarians, mainly concerned with not paying taxes and fulfilling as few as possible of their feudal dues as they could get away with.

[Razgovory]

What exactly would a loyalist faction do?  Being a faction leader for a faction means you get a little button where you can make an ultimatum. What kind of ultimatum would a Royalist faction have?                                       

[garbon]

Doesn't necessarily need to have one though. Perhaps being part of the faction would give the assigned members some positive bonus and then prevent them from being part of other factions.

[Razgovory]

You can be part of two factions at once I think.  I've seen AI character do it.

[garbon]

Raz, I think you are misunderstanding me. In both of your posts you are highlighting how factions currently work. I'm suggesting that said rules wouldn't have to be applicable to loyalist faction (though I think ideal would be no loyalist faction and the AI less prone to support any faction/rebellion).

[Viking]

Raz, I think you are misunderstanding me.

You see, thats your problem right there.

In both of your posts you are highlighting how factions currently work. I'm suggesting that said rules wouldn't have to be applicable to loyalist faction (though I think ideal would be no loyalist faction and the AI less prone to support any faction/rebellion).

If any, the benefits could be in a static modifier

Code Select Expand


loyalist = {
                 personality = yes
                 opposites = {
                                       rebel
                 }
                 
                 monthly_character_prestige = 0.1
                 vassal_opinion = 10
                 liege_opinion = 10
                 same_opinion = 10
                 opposite_opinion = -10
                 ai_honor = 10
}


and

Code Select Expand


rebel = {
                 personality = yes
                 opposites = {
                                       loyalist
                 }
                 
                 monthly_character_prestige = -0.1
                 vassal_opinion = -10
                 liege_opinion = -10
                 same_opinion = 10
                 opposite_opinion = -10
                 ai_honor = -10
}


[Martinus]

What exactly would a loyalist faction do?  Being a faction leader for a faction means you get a little button where you can make an ultimatum. What kind of ultimatum would a Royalist faction have?                                       

That's exactly my point - every non-faction member is by default a loyalist. Making vassals less likely to join factions (but again, in my experience, it is not that of a problem) would be a better solution than a loyalist faction.

[Viking]

What exactly would a loyalist faction do?  Being a faction leader for a faction means you get a little button where you can make an ultimatum. What kind of ultimatum would a Royalist faction have?                                       

That's exactly my point - every non-faction member is by default a loyalist. Making vassals less likely to join factions (but again, in my experience, it is not that of a problem) would be a better solution than a loyalist faction.

Yes, this is what we want to achieve by having a royalist faction.

[Razgovory]

If you are having problems with factions try to get the individual members to rebel against you.  Find the guy that hates you most make him court jester and raise his levies.  Also plot to kill some of them.  Look for guys with a lot of negative traits, he'll usually have enemies in his own court.  They may join a plot to kill that annoying vassal.  Be generous with gifts as well.  These can be used to win guys over to yours side in a plot and possibly make a character leave a faction.

[Viking]

If you are having problems with factions try to get the individual members to rebel against you.  Find the guy that hates you most make him court jester and raise his levies.  Also plot to kill some of them.  Look for guys with a lot of negative traits, he'll usually have enemies in his own court.  They may join a plot to kill that annoying vassal.  Be generous with gifts as well.  These can be used to win guys over to yours side in a plot and possibly make a character leave a faction.

Again, you'r making the same mistake tamas and mary are making. This is not the problem. People who hate me SHOULD be plotting against me. Convincing the waverers to leave the plot and killing off the nasty ones is the way of dealing with it.

The problem is

Plot has 3 dukes they revolt
Of the remaining 3 free loyalist dukes all join after the revolt starts

The thing is that all revolts result in virtually all vassals joining the revolt after it starts. Winning that war just isn't possible, not because they have more troops, but because the rebels get both more victory score per province and have a warscore ticker.

[Martinus]

That's not true at all, at least in my games.

[Tamas]

That's not true at all, at least in my games.

yeah, same here.