Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Valmy]

Day 3 of what?

Piecemeal release of next CK2 DLC/expansion image.

I see ravens so probably a Norse image showing us Swedish Odin worshippers are next.

[garbon]

Because honestly, I'm feeling like p'dox's thread serves to tell would-be modders: don't bother!

OR, maybe OR, most people who play CK2 and who don't whine like a crybaby post on the forums are not even aware that mods exist, or they find the game just fine as it is.

There are a lot of possibilities but I'm trying to look at why P'dox conveyed this information and under the guise that they did.  None of it looks well for modders.

[Tamas]

garbon it IS a relevant info  to a degree:

a) shows that a lot of people are content with vanilla content (get it?!!!), so people can learn it is not essential to mod like with some other games

b) CK2+ is by far the most popular mod, and that might not be a totally random thing, so people new to the scene can know to turn to CK2+ for a mainstream big mod

[Solmyr]

The only modding CK2 might need is adding more provinces and making wars more reasonable (reducing doomstacks/illogical DOWs). And maybe more flavor events.

[Drakken]

Remember also, that these stats are filtered on those who had previously consented to send the data to Paradox when they patched.

It's entirely possible that most mod users politely refused when prompted to send the data to Paradox, which skews the percentage of mod users downward. We'd need the percentage of CK2 players who volunteered to let Paradox now versus the total number of players; needless to say, that will never happen.

[garbon]

Remember also, that these stats are filtered on those who had previously consented to send the data to Paradox when they patched.

It's entirely possible that most mod users politely refused when prompted to send the data to Paradox, which skews the percentage of mod users downward. We'd need the percentage of CK2 players who volunteered to let Paradox now versus the total number of players; needless to say, that will never happen.

Totally agreed.

At Tamas, yes that makes for nice sound blurbs for p'dox but there's no way of testing if that's true/ the reason why. Lots of bits in there:

1) This is from some group of people who agreed to shared details with p'dox and a report on their mod usage in December
2) CK2+ is no longer going to be a mod (or at least not one with new content) now that p'dox has hired that mod's developer
3) Thread was titled top mods and then proceeded to show that less than 10% of time was a mod used.
4) People could not be using mods as they don't go to the forum / don't know of them.
5) Just because people don't use mods don't mean that there aren't large flaws in the game. You are always talking about modifications you've added yourself but then also state that you don't use mods as they change too much.
6) If I was someone modding CK2+, I'd feel less enthused to as p'dox has just suggested that I've little to no audience.  Less community engagement - yay?

[The Minsky Moment]

Given (2) I would not conclude (6).
The message I get from that totality is that mod usage is concentrated among an enthusiast minority, that nonetheless Paradox not only continues to encourage their development, but also incorporates ideas from them into its own updates, and uses them as recruiting grounds for new blood.

[garbon]

I suppose if one's goal is to get hired by p'dox that might make sense. Doubt that's why most modders are modding though.

Also though p'dox is flexible about adding things for modders - the thread itself comes across strange. Announcing the most popular mod is no mod? If the reasoning is as Tamas suggested (base game is good enough that you don't need a mod) then the presence of a vibrant, thriving mod community would be at cross purposes.

[Martinus]

garbon, I think you are off the mark. I would like the game to improve and would like a lot of features from mods to be implemented in the game (e.g. plots to kidnap or accuse people of treason/heresy, from CK2+) but I never use mods. Why?

1) Because while I like some ideas implemented by mods, I do not always agree with the entire "artist's vision" of modifications, many of them being quite questionable (especially when it comes to major mods, like CK2+).
2) It's a pain to update the mods.
3) I don't want to relearn the rules every time I try a new mod, with each mod offering different modifications and tweaks.
4) I feel like CK2 with mods is no longer the "real deal". It's like playing WoW on one of the sandbox, private servers.

From what I have seen, many people who refuse to use mods do it for a mixture of the above reasons, and I think people who think like this are a majority. That does not mean these people are satisfied with vanilla.

[garbon]

But that's my point. I think P'dox (and Tamas agreed) is using this to show that people are satisfied with vanilla...and I don't think that's what the stats they pulled mean.

[The Minsky Moment]

I suppose if one's goal is to get hired by p'dox that might make sense.

Not it's more than that.  It's a signal of the companies appreciation and understanding of the role of the active mod community, notwithstanding the lack of general uptake.

I read P-dox as saying: our vanilla releases are really good, and for most people that is enough.  But for some enthusiasts, it's not enough and they want to optimize or augment the original in pursuit of fixes or to pursue a different vision.  That may not be for most of our customers, but we still think it is great and we wholeheartedly support such efforts as long as Terms of Use are respected.  In fact, we have found that the contributions of the mod community go beyond the mods themselves, because sometimes they come up with ideas that we incorporate into our own releases through updates, DLCs or future product releases.

[garbon]

I suppose if one's goal is to get hired by p'dox that might make sense.

Not it's more than that.  It's a signal of the companies appreciation and understanding of the role of the active mod community, notwithstanding the lack of general uptake.

I read P-dox as saying: our vanilla releases are really good, and for most people that is enough.  But for some enthusiasts, it's not enough and they want to optimize or augment the original in pursuit of fixes or to pursue a different vision.  That may not be for most of our customers, but we still think it is great and we wholeheartedly support such efforts as long as Terms of Use are respected.  In fact, we have found that the contributions of the mod community go beyond the mods themselves, because sometimes they come up with ideas that we incorporate into our own releases through updates, DLCs or future product releases.

You read all of that from Johan's post? Seems pretty generous and a bit much given that he didn't say anything positive about mods there.

[The Minsky Moment]

You read all of that from Johan's post?

From the post in context of the course of conduct.  Actions speak louder than words.

[garbon]

Yeah I've never seen Johan excited about mods.

[garbon]

Besides, even if I were to buy that, how does that square with the whole announcement that the most popular mod is no mod?