Hungarian Politics

[The Brain]

I like the diagram.

[celedhring]

Asking protestors not to bring guns, knives or inflammable materials seems rather sensible to me 

[Admiral Yi]

And those with terribly sensitive ears might hear the bullhorn.

What's the treble cleffy-looking thing?

[Duque de Bragança]

There'll be two protests tonight in Budapest (there have been several this week in the minor cities. Little ones but most of them bigger than usual in those places). One will be a mock of the pro-government "peace marches" they sometimes organise (by taxpayers paying for the buses shipping in tens of thousands from across the country). It's the awesome joke-party the Two-tailed Dog Party doing that one.  The other will be a more "regular" protest which originally aimed to stop the President from signing the Save Law. But he did so yesterday.

Anyways, the Hungarian police has released a helpful diagram on what is and isn't allowed on protests:




So I guess the main thing is that a protest should not disturb anyone. As long as its meaningless and can be easily ignored, the police will play ball.

So high-visibility clothing, such as yellow vests, are still legal. 

[Tamas]

During the TV HQ altercations the state TV usually also had a camera around to record usable footage for their purposes. Somebody has leaked a part of that which hasn't been released officially, when 4-5 security guards wrestled with one of the MPs who refused to leave the building.

As I always repeat: he is an MP and according to the law he could just freely enter and inspect whatever the hell he wishes as long as he is not disturbing operations.

I guess you can also see that this guy was originally a miner, as he gives a good fight even just by passively resisting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=169&v=G7w0n4_5Fg8

[Syt]

And those with terribly sensitive ears might hear the bullhorn.

What's the treble cleffy-looking thing?

§ is "paragraph" and in many European countries stands for "the laws" because most laws are divided into those and use the symbol. In German, the word "paragraph" is almost used exclusively for law context, a generic paragraph of text would be an "Absatz" (which can also mean heel of a shoe, flight of stairs, or sales, as in numbers, sales markets etc. ).

It gets even worse because the main subsections of a law paragraph are called Absatz.

[Tamas]

Two of the MPs who got literally thrown out of the state TV HQ a month ago has gone back now (still there), with two humble request: have somebody take from them the information and material they'd like to ask the TV to cover in the news, and to speak to the Director.

First they were told at the main reception to go to a different building. (they are streaming this live on Facebook). They obidently went, only to have the door of said building shut and locked right in front of their nose. So they went back to the main building, and with some difficulty managed to gain entrance to the main reception.

Right now the TV (Head of Communications to be exact) refuses to take the text and USB stick from them in that reception area, they insist they remove themselves to the aforementioned building where somebody would receive it from them. They have so far refused to be humiliated and they are staying in the reception waiting area.

Meanwhile, just in case, a line of security guards protect the turnstiles leading to the building proper, to make sure the MPs do not gain entry to where they are legally free to roam whenever they want.

What a disgrace.


It is really at the point where the EU leaders should be responsible for their continued toleration of what's going on in Hungary. The ever-growing list of trampling of basic EU principles surely must count for something? Besides increasing the bribes EU officials can receive from the Hungarian government?

[The Larch]

It is really at the point where the EU leaders should be responsible for their continued toleration of what's going on in Hungary. The ever-growing list of trampling of basic EU principles surely must count for something? Besides increasing the bribes EU officials can receive from the Hungarian government?

The fault here lies at the feet of the EPP, IMO. PiS left the group back in the day to join the Tories and Poland was repeatedly smacked with procedures, while Orban kept Fidesz in the group, earning thus their "protection" while he kept dismantling Hungary's democratic system, and only earning reprisals when their acts went beyond the pale.

[Tamas]

So after 5 hours or so, the TV's President came to them with the TV cameracrew behind him. He spoke for minutes without stopping for a breath, accused the MPs of violence during the previous scandal a month ago, accused of committing violence at that very moment (of sitting on a couch I guess), protested the "unfair treatment" of his employees by the MPs and left.

It's an incredible humiliation of the official representatives of the electorate.

[Tamas]

[Tamas]

The two MPs vowed to stay as long as it takes to have a proper conversation with the director, but TV security is not letting them use the bathroom.

The MPs have called the police a couple of times (once when the director ignored them second on the toilet issue) in both cases the police called them back saying they are right there outside, the MPs can come out to talk to them, but they are not going in...

[Oexmelin]

Thanks for the reporting Tamas.

Do you have a sense of the general interest in this angle of attack through TV access by the opposition? Does to have a chance to broaden the support for opposition?

What generation are those in position of power appointed by Orban? How old were they in 1989?

[Tamas]

Thanks for the reporting Tamas.

Do you have a sense of the general interest in this angle of attack through TV access by the opposition? Does to have a chance to broaden the support for opposition?

What generation are those in position of power appointed by Orban? How old were they in 1989?

There has been since the "slave law" a very promising collaboration across the opposition parties. Seeing Jobbik's flag fly along leftist parties' would had been unthinkable even half a year ago. Of course Jobbik is just a shadow of its former self, but still.

So at one hand there is more activity and unity on the opposition than ever before. What is worrying to me, however, is that still the people actually willing to take to the street are not enough. The biggest protests the last month managed maybe 10-20k people. Which is a lot by recent Hungarian standards but hardly something that would corner the regime.

What this concentration on the state TV hopefully will achieve is expose the nature of the system to more and more people. That's where I see the value in this and other opposition actions: by forcing the regime to drop the facade of rule of law and democracy in public (since neither of these actually exist anymore), they hasten the escalation toward open autocracy. That is inevitable regardless, and IMHO it is better if they have to switch to it while they are not fully prepared for it.

As for the generation. There are two distinct groups I think: most of them are in their 40s IIRC, but there are some people in important roles who were active pre-1989.

Most prominent is the Interior Minister who was a high ranked police officer, and quite clearly he was a key player in organised crime in the 1990s while also rising in police hierarchy. But for example some state secretary (under a minister) is an ex-officer of the secret police of the 80s.

In general, the only thing preventing servitors of the communist regime from holding office is their age. This is true to all aspects of society. For example, one of the "journalists" running one of the most rabid pro-government newspapers received a state medal in the late 80s for his "great journalism".

It's a disgusting subject and the price Hungary paid for avoiding bloodshed during the fall of communism.

[Tamas]

Under the pressure of no bathroom breaks for a whole day, last night the two MPs agreed to relocate to this sideways building hosting the archives and the least watch state TV channel, where they were gratiously allowed to use the loo. They spent the night there.

They woke up from their sleep on the couches to this:



The state TV was filming them even in their sleep.

[Tamas]

This morning they of course were not let back into the main HQ building, they held a pre-announced press conference in front of it (a handful of journos attended. It was a bit of a sad sight but of course only a handful of media are not in direct Fidesz control, and one of their TVs did attend). They called up the police during this press conference, on speaker phone, explaining that they are being prevented from performing their work by being barred from entry. The captain they ended up with told them since there was no violence the police would not deal with it. One of the MPs asked, would you at least send somebody to assess the situation, since I am a citizen reporting a breaking of the law taking place? Officer said no.

Then the MP asked: if say, a train driver was barred from the train he was supposed to drive, by someone unauthorised, would the police not go to the scene and make sure this stops? Officer said yes they would. And that's where it ended really.

Once again, a proof that Party interests overrule the law, even when it comes to the police and members of parliament. This should leave ordinary citizens extremely concerned, but I very much doubt a critical mass of them will care.