Hungarian Politics

[Tamas]

Seems like Index.hu is the next casualty in the Fidesz takeover of the entire Hungarian media.

For a non-Hungarian its probably impossible to understand the implications of that. Index.hu was THE Internet in terms of news and information since the late-90s at least. And it was always a liberal voice.

It did get under owernships of an oligarch wanting to score good points with Fidesz, 7 years ago. That's how one of the founders left, gathered some uncompromising colleagues and founded 444.hu (4 is where the exclamation mark is on Hungarian keyboards), which now remains the only truly independ AND widely read online medium.

So, Index definitely got mellower in criticising the government then but they were very much considered on the "other side" by the powers that be.

During Orban's war with his once-right hand man Simicska, Simicska set up a fairly complicated setup where Index proper got into a hand of a foundation to ensure creative freedom, but all the financial controls, like selling advert space etc. got under a different company that remained under his wings.

Now after Simicska's surrender and exile, this financial control company is now suddenly in the hands of previously unknown government lackey.

Index of course swore they are still free, but...

I noticed yesterday that there was no news that would show the government in critical light on their front page, or in the Internal politics section.

This morning I was pleasantly surprised to see them leading with the newest infos on the enrichening of Orban's son in-law. Fast forward a few hours though, and that article, as far as I can see is gone. At the very least, hidden so well that I have not been able to find it.

So yeah that's how life is in Hungary. It's quite a clever system if you think about it. You syphoned every cent of tax money and EU subsidies you could, built up a loyal new aristocracy, and they use their wealth to put the media under your personal control. No need to send in the police to silence journalists when nobody gets to read them.

[Tamas]

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1042445300567343104

[Valmy]

So yeah that's how life is in Hungary. It's quite a clever system if you think about it. You syphoned every cent of tax money and EU subsidies you could, built up a loyal new aristocracy, and they use their wealth to put the media under your personal control. No need to send in the police to silence journalists when nobody gets to read them.

There is something very Soviet about it...or I guess Russian.

[The Brain]

So yeah that's how life is in Hungary. It's quite a clever system if you think about it. You syphoned every cent of tax money and EU subsidies you could, built up a loyal new aristocracy, and they use their wealth to put the media under your personal control. No need to send in the police to silence journalists when nobody gets to read them.

There is something very Soviet about it...or I guess Russian.

Hungarian.

[crazy canuck]

As much as I like to see the EU taking a stand, do these things ever work? Orban will just play the evil EU card and strengthen his position at home.

The language seems poorly chosen.

There's a fairly straight-forward case for sanctions against Orban - for violating democratic principles.  But then they go on mixing "attitudes towards women" and other leftist concerns which are maybe not so clear cut.

Attitude toward women is a leftist concern?  Are you suggesting right wingers are all sexist pigs or compliant females?

[Razgovory]

I kinda feel bad about making fun of Tamas for backward-ass country.

[crazy canuck]

I thought the entire basis for the EU was shared democratic values. But you can run a dictatorship complete with political prisoners and internment camps so long as you can get one other country in the EU to go along with it? Well hell considering the rogues gallery of Eastern European nations in this thing that should not be too hard.

This is another example as to why confederations do not work.

That's why after the enlargements the voting system was modified to remove national vetos for many topics, as total unanimity is near impossible to reach nowadays with so many countries and so many interests. Veto is retained only for the most severe stuff, like this kind of punishment proceedings.

I guess nobody foresaw that an EU country could descend so quickly into pseudo-autocracy when already inside the club.

Don't beat yourselves up too badly.  Nobody foresaw the US turning into this kind of shitshow either.  Right wing populism isnt unique to EU countries.

[Valmy]

I don't think it was some kind of unforseen event that these kinds of problems would creep up in Eastern Europe. There had been full blown nationalist pogroms there in recent memory.

One of the purposes of EU expansion was to strengthen democratic elements, which were recognized as potentially fragile.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think that we have made a mistake in thinking that democracy leads to efficient and contented states. It is more that only efficient and contented states can afford the "luxury" of democracy.

[celedhring]

I don't think it was some kind of unforseen event that these kinds of problems would creep up in Eastern Europe. There had been full blown nationalist pogroms there in recent memory.

One of the purposes of EU expansion was to strengthen democratic elements, which were recognized as potentially fragile.

It was either the EU or the Russians. I think despite the shitshows in Poland/Hungary they are still better off.

[crazy canuck]

I don't think it was some kind of unforseen event that these kinds of problems would creep up in Eastern Europe. There had been full blown nationalist pogroms there in recent memory.

One of the purposes of EU expansion was to strengthen democratic elements, which were recognized as potentially fragile.

The nationalism largely started after admission, not before.  People easily forget the hope everyone had for Hungary - and for good reason.

[Tamas]

I don't think it was some kind of unforseen event that these kinds of problems would creep up in Eastern Europe. There had been full blown nationalist pogroms there in recent memory.

One of the purposes of EU expansion was to strengthen democratic elements, which were recognized as potentially fragile.

The nationalism largely started after admission, not before.  People easily forget the hope everyone had for Hungary - and for good reason.

A painful memory I often cite is reading an English article not long after our 2004 joining of EU (and Schengen), where the journalist analysed how Hungary's general frontrunner status in the region and the large number of ethnic Hungarians in the neighbouring countries prety much destines the country to grow into the strongest country there, extorting disproportional economic influence over neighbours via their corporations who'll be bound to expand across the borders.

How far reality has fallen from that.

[Maladict]

Don't beat yourselves up too badly.  Nobody foresaw the US turning into this kind of shitshow either.  Right wing populism isnt unique to EU countries.

Only Canada is left 

[HVC]

Don't beat yourselves up too badly.  Nobody foresaw the US turning into this kind of shitshow either.  Right wing populism isnt unique to EU countries.

Only Canada is left 

Harper tried to edge that way, but it backfired on him. But no one is really safe.

[Barrister]

Don't beat yourselves up too badly.  Nobody foresaw the US turning into this kind of shitshow either.  Right wing populism isnt unique to EU countries.

Only Canada is left 

Harper tried to edge that way, but it backfired on him. But no one is really safe.