Hungarian Politics

[celedhring]

The European Parliament has formally asked the Council to open Article 7 proceedings against Hungary. I suppose that Poland will eventually veto it (the warning stage of Article 7 doesn't have single-state veto, but the actual sanctions do).

The European Parliament voted on Wednesday to trigger Article 7 disciplinary procedures against Hungary for undermining democratic rules.

The motion to trigger Article 7 passed in the Strasbourg plenary session with 448 votes in favour, 197 against and 48 abstentions.

The same procedure was launched by the European Commission against Poland in December 2017, but Wednesday's vote marks the first time that the European legislature has ever triggered the action.

What is Article 7?
Article 7, often dubbed the "nuclear option", is the EU's punishment clause, allowing it to discipline member states when there is a "clear risk of a serious breach" of the bloc's core principles.

A proposal to trigger Article 7 can be brought forward by the European Parliament, the European Commission or by one-third of member states.

The European Council, with the consent of the European Parliament, must then reach a four-fifths majority decision on the proposal, and speak to the state in question.

Once adopted, the measure has two parts—a preventative mechanism and a sanctioning mechanism.

Article 7(1), as triggered against Hungary, means a formal warning is given to the state. If this doesn't have the desired effect, Article 7(2) can be used to impose sanctions and suspend EU voting rights.

Why Hungary?
Dutch MEP Judith Sargentini wrote a report into Hungary and Prime Minister Viktor Orban's Fidesz party, which launched the debate on Wednesday.

The report accuses of various breaches of EU values.

It cites migrant abuse; restrictions on press freedom; corruption and conflicts of interest; and "stereotypical attitudes" towards women, among other concerns.

What has Orban said?
During a debate over the motion on Tuesday, Orban remained defiant, telling lawmakers he would not bow to EU "blackmail".

"You think that you know the needs of the Hungarian people better than the Hungarian people themselves. Therefore I must say to you that this report does not show respect for the Hungarian people. This report applies double standards, it is an abuse of power, it oversteps the limits on spheres of competence, and the method of its adoption is a treaty violation," he said.

"Hungary shall continue to defend its borders, stop illegal immigration and defend its rights – against you, too, if necessary," he said, drawing applause from the eurosceptic, far-right lawmakers in the assembly.

[Maladict]

Excellent

[celedhring]

As much as I like to see the EU taking a stand, do these things ever work? Orban will just play the evil EU card and strengthen his position at home.

[Barrister]

As much as I like to see the EU taking a stand, do these things ever work? Orban will just play the evil EU card and strengthen his position at home.

The language seems poorly chosen.

There's a fairly straight-forward case for sanctions against Orban - for violating democratic principles.  But then they go on mixing "attitudes towards women" and other leftist concerns which are maybe not so clear cut.

[Syt]

Well, at least Orban has the backing of the British conservatives in the EU Parliament: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/viktor-orban-conservative-european-parliament-theresa-may-a8534401.html

[Richard Hakluyt]

A breakdown of the vote :

http://debateuncensored.x10host.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=45&pid=87#pid87

[The Larch]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

[The Larch]

Also somehow funny/ironic/sign of the times how the European Parlament has ended up with 3 different groups that can be labeled "far right nationalists". I'd argue that only one of those groups (ENF) is true to that label.

[Maladict]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

Yes, but unfortunately the knuckledraggers have veto powers.

[The Larch]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

Yes, but unfortunately the knuckledraggers have veto powers.

Yup, Poland would veto anything really tough for sure, given that they're next in line, so to speak, although Poland got hit with the same stick recently for their judiciary reform and AFAIK Hungary didn't block anything at that time.

[celedhring]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

Yes, but unfortunately the knuckledraggers have veto powers.

Yup, Poland would veto anything really tough for sure, given that they're next in line, so to speak, although Poland got hit with the same stick recently for their judiciary reform and AFAIK Hungary didn't block anything at that time.

The process hasn't reached the stage where they can veto yet.

[Valmy]

I thought the entire basis for the EU was shared democratic values. But you can run a dictatorship complete with political prisoners and internment camps so long as you can get one other country in the EU to go along with it? Well hell considering the rogues gallery of Eastern European nations in this thing that should not be too hard.

This is another example as to why confederations do not work.

[The Larch]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

Yes, but unfortunately the knuckledraggers have veto powers.

Yup, Poland would veto anything really tough for sure, given that they're next in line, so to speak, although Poland got hit with the same stick recently for their judiciary reform and AFAIK Hungary didn't block anything at that time.

The process hasn't reached the stage where they can veto yet.

I know, I mean down the line. This is just the beginning of the process after all.

[The Larch]

I thought the entire basis for the EU was shared democratic values. But you can run a dictatorship complete with political prisoners and internment camps so long as you can get one other country in the EU to go along with it? Well hell considering the rogues gallery of Eastern European nations in this thing that should not be too hard.

This is another example as to why confederations do not work.

That's why after the enlargements the voting system was modified to remove national vetos for many topics, as total unanimity is near impossible to reach nowadays with so many countries and so many interests. Veto is retained only for the most severe stuff, like this kind of punishment proceedings.

I guess nobody foresaw that an EU country could descend so quickly into pseudo-autocracy when already inside the club.

[celedhring]

The general breakdown of the vote along party lines is more or less as expected. Overwhelming condemnation from most places and support from partisans and knuckledraggers.

Yes, but unfortunately the knuckledraggers have veto powers.

Yup, Poland would veto anything really tough for sure, given that they're next in line, so to speak, although Poland got hit with the same stick recently for their judiciary reform and AFAIK Hungary didn't block anything at that time.

The process hasn't reached the stage where they can veto yet.

I know, I mean down the line. This is just the beginning of the process after all.

I mean Poland's. Poland got a warning, warnings can't be vetoed. Actual sanctions can. IIRC last june they postponed the decision on whether to move forward with sanctions.

Problem is that the veto turns Article 7 into a paper tiger.