Hungarian Politics

[The Brain]

From what I can tell Islam is doing just fine. Where's the crisis?

[Valmy]

I am not sure an analogy with a very small minority within a religious group works.  The vast majority of Muslims in North America live in the modern world (again your phrase).

Yes that was my phrase. Are you saying Mormons live in the ancient world? I am not sure how I am failing to get my point across here. And I never said that Muslims of any number did or did not live in the modern world.

Again, I am not sure what you mean when you say Islam has to change.  There is clearly not one form of Islamic belief.

True. I am talking about the traditional orthodox conservative version of Islam practiced and understood by the majority of Muslims. I keep using those words for a reason.

And for that matter, Christianity has lasted a long time despite its own contradictions, likely because there are many Christianities.

There are an insane number of Christianities but that has not saved Christianity from struggling with the issues of modernity. I mean surely you can see that with every generation the percentage of believers and practitioners wanes.

Choose one to suite your purposes just as Muslims choose what form of Islamic belief appeals to them most.

That is a very progressive and post-modern view of the matter. I don't think that is very compatible with traditional religious faith.

In any case my purpose was trying to re-assure CI that in the long run there is nothing for him to worry about.

[Valmy]

Man, Fahdiz never should have left Languish.  How did he get put in charge of Hungary?

He was Catholic?

Yes, but not for very long. He had the fire of a recent convert when he first came here IIRC.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure an analogy with a very small minority within a religious group works.  The vast majority of Muslims in North America live in the modern world (again your phrase).

Yes that was my phrase. Are you saying Mormons live in the ancient world?

I have no idea how you got there. 

True. I am talking about the traditional orthodox conservative version of Islam practiced and understood by the majority of Muslims. I keep using those words for a reason.

Ok,  it would have been helpful if you had used those words in the post I responded to.  You did not qualify your comments in the post I responded to.  You simply stated "
But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow."

But even if you had, what do you mean by a "traditional orthodox conservative version of Islam" which is practiced by a majority of Muslims?  What version is that and why do you think the majority of Muslims practice whatever it is you have identified as their "version".

There are an insane number of Christianities but that has not saved Christianity from struggling with the issues of modernity. I mean surely you can see that with every generation the percentage of believers and practitioners wanes.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make.  Christianity seems to be pretty strong and particularly in the US where politics are deeply influenced by a conservative version of Christianity.

That is a very progressive and post-modern view of the matter. I don't think that is very compatible with traditional religious faith.

And yet we have, as you say, an "insane number of Christianities" even within the conservative traditional versions of that religion.  Why do you think there are not variations within Islam.   Also, if those divisions do not exist, then why all the violence within Islam?

In any case my purpose was trying to re-assure CI that in the long run there is nothing for him to worry about.

Not sure that is accomplished by oversimplifying the religious divisions within Islam.

[Tamas]

Today is a big national holiday in Hungary and Fidesz organised a giant "peace march" to show force and unity after the surprise humiliation at the recent mayoral election.

Orban is having the usual boring "we are needed to stop Soros and the organisation behind him, tens of millions of Africans are going to march toward Europe in the next decade, Western Europe is already lost" speech, but there are two worryingly honest (although hardly surprising) lines:

-"this election isn't just for 4 years"
-"we are peaceful, but after the elections we will take revenge [well compensation might be a better word]. Moral, political, legal one."

[Valmy]

-"this election isn't just for 4 years"
-"we are peaceful, but after the elections we will take revenge [well compensation might be a better word]. Moral, political, legal one."

Holy shit 

[Tamas]

Yeah and just before it he said, pretty much literally, that every non-Fidesz voter is a Soros agent.

All the argument they have remaining for themselves is anti-migration (although it is worth noting that no political party wants to let migrants in, or even disassemble the fence on the border), and now these threats.

It has me genuinely worried what would happen if the lose the election on 8th of April, or what will happen a few years later. Luckily, I think they'll just doctor the numbers if it turns out they are losing the votes on election day. Because there's no way they'll give over power peacefully. It is simply not possible. Leaving Orban's threats and rhetoric above, the moment the chief attorney would be replaced with a non-Fidesz member, they would all go to jail.

[Habbaku]

You may have explained it already, but if so please indulge me:

What's with the fixation on George Soros?

[Tamas]

You may have explained it already, but if so please indulge me:

What's with the fixation on George Soros?

It is just a personal theory, but I think initially they just rode on the waves of the then-popular #MAGA-related discussion of blaming Soros for everything, Black Lives Matter "riots" in particular. Then the #MAGA crowd moved on, but an old rich Hungarian Jew living in America was just too convenient a villain to give up in Hungary.

I am pretty sure they'll drop him after the election though. He is growing very stale. What remains is the tyrant EU (sending ungodly billions straight to the oligarch's purses, oh teh tyranny), and nowadays they try to villain-ise the UN, but with little success.

[Valmy]

and nowadays they try to villain-ise the UN, but with little success.

The UN's evil plan of sending sternly worded letters strikes terror into the hearts of good Hungarians everywhere.

[Barrister]

You may have explained it already, but if so please indulge me:

What's with the fixation on George Soros?

While there is some kernel of truth in the complaints (he does donate billions of dollars to leftist political causes), it's mostly a cheap way to blame "the Jews" for everything without sounding overtly anti-semitic.

[Valmy]

While there is some kernel of truth in the complaints (he does donate billions of dollars to leftist political causes)

Sort of. It is not like he is funding Maoist militias or something.

[Habbaku]

You may have explained it already, but if so please indulge me:

What's with the fixation on George Soros?

While there is some kernel of truth in the complaints (he does donate billions of dollars to leftist political causes), it's mostly a cheap way to blame "the Jews" for everything without sounding overtly anti-semitic.

So, just like the people in the US that obsess over him. Lame.

[Barrister]

From Twitter, but from a verified writer for The Guardian, from a recent speech:

Orban: "We are fighting an enemy that is different from us. Not open, but hiding; not straightforward but crafty; not honest but base; does not believe in working but speculates with money; does not have its own homeland but feels it owns the whole world." #dogwhistle

Gee, what enemy could he be talking about...

[Valmy]

Damn Jehova's Witnesses!