Hungarian Politics

[Duque de Bragança]

And there may be a time when there is a large Muslim minority in Rome. But that day is not yet today.

Greatest European mosque (excluding Moscow) is in Rome though so a large muslim minority is already there Valmy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque_of_Rome

The Mosque of Rome (Italian: Moschea di Roma), situated in Parioli, is the largest mosque outside the Islamic world, Russia and India.[1] It has an area of 30,000 m2 (320,000 sq ft) and can accommodate more than 12,000 people. The building is located in the Acqua Acetosa area, at the foot of the Monti Parioli, north of the city. Being the Western world's biggest mosque,[2] it is the seat of the Italian Islamic Cultural Centre (Italian: Centro Culturale Islamico d'Italia).

Capacity of 12,000 so more than the 10,000 you mentioned earlier. In fact, the Latium has 112,800 muslims (2016 figures found on the Italian wiki about islam in Italy), most of them I suppose in the Greater Rome area.
Incidentally, there are more muslims in Lombardy. I guess this explains why the Lega reinvented itself as an anti-immigration party instead of a regionalist party i.e anti-Mezzogiorno and anti-Roma Ladra.

[crazy canuck]

islam doesn't mellow, it usurps the places where it is allowed to exist

I don't see much evidence of usurpation in Canada and yet that religion is freely and opening practiced here.   Perhaps there is something wrong with your theory.   

[Valmy]

I will say that the old world has different dynamics than over here. Ethnic minorities have the tendency to entrench and hang around for centuries in ways they just don't over in the US and Canada.

But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow.

[Valmy]

Capacity of 12,000 so more than the 10,000 you mentioned earlier. In fact, the Latium has 112,800 muslims (2016 figures found on the Italian wiki about islam in Italy), most of them I suppose in the Greater Rome area.
Incidentally, there are more muslims in Lombardy. I guess this explains why the Lega reinvented itself as an anti-immigration party instead of a regionalist party i.e anti-Mezzogiorno and anti-Roma Ladra.

Rome itself has a population of almost three million with a metro area population of much more. Ethnic Italians make up over 90% of that total. I got my number because non-Euros are made up of Chinese and Filipinos and Bangladeshis and 12,000 was the population of the Bangladeshis but I forgot that there are Euro-Muslims like Albanians which are probably well represented.

So we are talking about a tiny percentage.

[crazy canuck]

But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow.

If you ever come to Vancouver, take a stroll through West and North Vancouver.  You will see plenty of Muslims who are doing very well living in the modern world.   

[Tamas]

It is ironic this thread is turning into a debate on muslim immigration.

[Valmy]

But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow.

If you ever come to Vancouver, take a stroll through West and North Vancouver.  You will see plenty of Muslims who are doing very well living in the modern world.   

Same in Austin. I didn't say 'Muslims'.

[crazy canuck]

But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow.

If you ever come to Vancouver, take a stroll through West and North Vancouver.  You will see plenty of Muslims who are doing very well living in the modern world.   

Same in Austin. I didn't say 'Muslims'.

Ok, what point are you trying to make about "Islam" that is different from how Muslims have, to use your words "evolved with the modern world"?

[Jacob]

Ivan is just out shilling his bigoted agenda. Nothing to concerns ourselves with, V.

yawn, take your virtue-signalling to Mecca.

You're the one who started with the virtue-signalling in this case.

[Valmy]

Ok, what point are you trying to make about "Islam" that is different from how Muslims have, to use your words "evolved with the modern world"?

Those seem very distinct to me. I mean people can reconcile all sorts of contradictory things. I mean there are plenty of gay Mormons but that doesn't mean that Mormonism might have to address that issue at some point. But I would certainly never say that Mormons need to address their issues with LBTQ stuff because many of them already have because just because you are part of a religious or cultural group doesn't mean it defines you on everything.

But I recall a conversation we had a long time ago where I mused that I thought the modern world was evolving towards a more interconnected global culture and you also vehemently disagreed. We may just disagree on this point but I think I have been rather consistent that traditional conservative things like Islam will eventually have to change or collapse under their own contradictions. It could just be that it becomes a series of cultural traditions and values the way Catholicism is for many French, Italian, and Spanish people...and indeed probably already is for many people who identify as Muslims. I know significant numbers of French 'Muslims' are not religious at all, which would make them perfect Frenchmen.

But hey maybe all is well in the house of Islam. It doesn't seem like it is, but ultimately I don't live inside that house I am just in the neighborhood.

[Valmy]

It is ironic this thread is turning into a debate on muslim immigration.

Is it? It seems rather apropos

[Duque de Bragança]

I will say that the old world has different dynamics than over here. Ethnic minorities have the tendency to entrench and hang around for centuries in ways they just don't over in the US and Canada.

Really depends on what ethnic minorities and namely their attitude. Of course, the move away from assimilation to multiculturalism in all but name has not been exactly helpful.
When or If the US and Canada have muslim percentages comparable to Western Europe, then we can compare.

But, all the same, I think Islam is going through a crisis. I doubt it will emerge from all this without having to evolve with the modern world somehow.

Islam has been in a crisis for a long time now...

[crazy canuck]

Those seem very distinct to me. I mean people can reconcile all sorts of contradictory things. I mean there are plenty of gay Mormons but that doesn't mean that Mormonism might have to address that issue at some point. But I would certainly never say that Mormons need to address their issues with LBTQ stuff because many of them already have because just because you are part of a religious or cultural group doesn't mean it defines you on everything.

I am not sure an analogy with a very small minority within a religious group works.  The vast majority of Muslims in North America live in the modern world (again your phrase).

But I recall a conversation we had a long time ago where I mused that I thought the modern world was evolving towards a more interconnected global culture and you also vehemently disagreed. We may just disagree on this point but I think I have been rather consistent that traditional conservative things like Islam will eventually have to change or collapse under their own contradictions.

Again, I am not sure what you mean when you say Islam has to change.  There is clearly not one form of Islamic belief.  And for that matter, Christianity has lasted a long time despite its own contradictions, likely because there are many Christianities.  Choose one to suite your purposes just as Muslims choose what form of Islamic belief appeals to them most.

[Razgovory]

In accordance with their "we absolutely, positively do not break for anyone" style, Fidesz decided to stand behind their guy above with the "if we lose Budapest will be like Vienna" declaration, stating that if they do not win the election, Budapest will become just like "Rome, Berlin, Vienna, Stockholm, London".

Which are of course, in their story, under practical siege of third world coloured people, suffocating in an orgy of crime, filth, and Islam.

Trivia: AFAIK the Vienna guy's daughter goes to a university in London.

Man, Fahdiz never should have left Languish.  How did he get put in charge of Hungary?

[citizen k]

Man, Fahdiz never should have left Languish.  How did he get put in charge of Hungary?

He was Catholic?