TV/Movies Megathread

[garbon]

The odyssey is a weird halfway point, it's fantasy but also kind of set in reality. Or at least a cultural "reality". That being said I think the film will fail because it will suck. Blind casting won't help that. Probably lose more audience than it will gain by it.

I think it'll suck too. But when we have people melting down over a black Helen of Troy, I say let's do that more often.

I mean sure, if you want to rage bait certain people , but at this point it just seems like a cynical defence to yell out bigotry when your film sucks and people don't want to watch it. I mean Jordan peele makes great diverse films, his best being a film where white people are the evil villans , they make money and win awards.

Maybe but it isn't my film and I'm not trying to provide a rationalisation for why it was 'good' in the face of failure.

What I am is a person seeing this:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/beccamonaghan/the-odyssey-backlash-explained

Responding to news that Nyong'o would play Helen of Troy after one user described the decision as "disgusting", Musk wrote: "Chris Nolan has lost his integrity."

Meanwhile, right-wing commentator Matt Walsh wrote: "Not one person on the planet actually thinks that Lupita Nyong'o is 'the most beautiful woman in the world.' But Christopher Nolan knows that he would be called racist if he gave 'the most beautiful woman' role to a white woman. Nolan is technically talented but a coward."

[garbon]

Anya Taylor Joy's not white.

If you google her, you will see she identifies as a white Latina who is careful about applying for "Latino" roles.

[Grey Fox]

So, Latina.

[HVC]

So, Latina.

Latinos can be white. Ask them, they'll be sure to tell you very forcibly

It's like calling a Nigerian born in England white because he was born in a "white" country

[Syt]

I'm coming up on the end of S2 of The Rookie. S1 started fairly grounded and serious. By the end it was getting a bit silly. S2 is ramping that up. These must be the most seasoned Rookies ever by the end of their first year between bio-terrorism, missile attacks, various mob stuff, serial killers (love actress Anne Wirsching, RIP way too soon ), celebrities, government black ops ...and Claire seems to be the only doctor on staff at the hospital in S2 ... It's stretching credulity more than just a bit at this point. Still fun, though.

[Sheilbh]

For me, it depends on how naturalistic the work aims to be (or if race explicitly plays a part in the story/character). In the case of most entertainment films/shows, that's actually very little so I don't care. Race switching will probably be the least of "realism sins" committed in that product for the sake of entertainment, and it really doesn't matter.

 I think brit shows approach this beautifully.  My mom and I were watching some random brit late middle ages murder mystery set in an abbey, and the abbot was black. The actor made a great job and was compelling in the part. So who cares?

I was thinking British TV is often pretty good at this - the one that sprung to mind for me was Grantchester which is also a murder mystery (vicar and cop in 1950s Britain solving crime). The recent series have had a British-Asian actor as the vicar. It deals with his race lightly, but also just doesn't matter. And I think that is maybe the realism break for me that is necessary - either you tell the story in a colour-blind-ish way or you have to deal with race more seriously and I think that requires realism. I've mentioned before but Bridgerton really pissed me off on this because to begin with it was fine - it is pure fantasy, it is colour blind etc. Then there was an episode where they talked about how race relations were all changed and it's kind of implied black people were "freed" because the King fell in love with the Queen - and that drove me mad. I think if you're acknowledging race in your fantasy world then you need to have a better theory of change than the nonsense that powers the rest of it; if it is just colour-blind that's fine.

From a strictly realism point there were Indian heritage vicars in English parishes back in the 19th and early 20th century, so not impossible for the 1950s but very, very rare. There's a story of an British-Asian vicar at the turn of the century who was wrongly convicted of crimes and Arthur Conan-Doyle led the campaign to acquit him - there's fairly good novel (I want to say Julian Barnes but it might be someone else) called Arthur and George about the case.

I think part of the reason it's done in British TV so much is that it's really common on stage. The best - still-talked about - Henry V of my lifetime was Adrien Lester 25 years ago. Basically almost all "classic" plays are cast in a colour-blind way unless it's really important for the story (e.g. Othello). There was a big report on it for the BBC recently which did flag that there were issues with it around "tokenism" and based on their polling and focus groups, ethnic minority viewers disliked it as much as white viewers. Also they noted it needed to be conscious in historical dramas: "in depicting an anachronistic historical world in which people of colour are able to rise to the top of society as scientists, artists, courtiers and Lords of the Realm, there may be the unintended consequence of erasing the past exclusion and oppression of ethnic minorities and breeding complacency about their former opportunities." But ultimately I think as long as the writing and performance is there it doesn't really matter.

[garbon]

Yes, Bridgerton was dumb when they tried to deal with race.

[HVC]

Didn't they also get backlash for the last two doctor who's? Or was that just Americans being pissed?

[Sheilbh]

No there was - but my sense was that the backlash there was also bound up with a drop in quality. I think there was probably a dynamic of all the wrong people criticising for all the wrong reasons, followed by people who otherwise would be talking about it falling of a cliff being maybe a little defensive in spite of it not being good because all the wrong people are moaning about it.

I think it was maybe also a bit like the Marvel movies (perhaps especially once the BBC did the tie up with Disney) of disappearing up their own arse.

I think it's where quality really matters again. I think the recent-ish David Copperfield by Armando Ianucci, with Dev Patel, Rosalind Eleazar and Benedict Wong, is a really good example of colour-blind casting just not mattering if the actual writing and performances are good. I think that wasn't the case with Dr Who in the last few seasons and I think the BBC have basically paused it and will probably do a full reset sooner or later.

[Duque de Bragança]

Apparently the movie industry can't find any actors from the Mediterranean region. Even in the 1960s Omar Sharif got major roles.

Omar Sharif even played German characters back then.
But yes, not a single Greek in the cast; so much for diversity.

[HVC]

I myslef tried watching lady who, but it was so bad. To be fair I also stopped watching halfway through campaldi run because it got bad and I had been watching since angry Who brought it back in the early 00's.

[Duque de Bragança]

So, Latina.

Latinos can be white. Ask them, they'll be sure to tell you very forcibly

It's like calling a Nigerian born in England white because he was born in a "white" country

Luigizamo disagrees with Latin roles that should be played by « Latin » people so not by people such as James Franco who happens to have Portuguese origins.

Incidentally , quite a bit of white make-up for Luigizamo as Eumaeus.

[garbon]

I myslef tried watching lady who, but it was so bad. To be fair I also stopped watching halfway through campaldi run because it got bad and I had been watching since angry Who brought it back in the early 00's.

That is because Dr. Who is bad. 

[HVC]

James Franco has some other issues that are far worse than being portuguese

[HVC]

I myslef tried watching lady who, but it was so bad. To be fair I also stopped watching halfway through campaldi run because it got bad and I had been watching since angry Who brought it back in the early 00's.

That is because Dr. Who is bad. 

Angry Who was fine. Tennant was great and smiths time was hit or miss. The Capaldi made me sad because I love him as an actor. And there were some strong showings but the writing really let him down.