BELIEVE: Dems propose national biometric ID card

[DGuller]

I never understood the paranoia about national ID cards.  Are there any non-idiotic arguments against it?

[DGuller]

Driving licenses have never been a problem because it is your choice whether you learn to drive or not.

In practice, everyone needs to have a good piece of ID, or your life would be very difficult in many circumstances.  Those who don't have a driver's license can get a non-driver's ID that looks a lot like the driver's license, and it's a good idea to get it.

[Josquius]

Indeed.
My sister doesn't drive and doesn't want to. She has had to get a provisional driving license though or else she'd be never allowed to buy alcohol.
In the UK a driving license is really pretty much the only ID that is universally accepted, even other supposed purpose made proper proof of age IDs are not taken everywhere (as I discovered to my great annoyance on my 18th birthday night out ), its either a driving license or a passport you need; and the latter doesn't fit neatly in a credit card slot of a wallet.


As to ID paranoia- I think a lot of it stems from people thinking it means the police can stop you at any time and demand your ID (as  is technically the case in a few European countries I think) and this of course will inevitably lead to a totalitarian police state of constant 'your papers please' and all that.

[sbr]

I don't hate the National ID idea completely.  I would like to see the American Motor Vehicles Departments get out of the Proving Citizenship Business and back into the Deciding Who Can and Cannot Drive business.

[alfred russel]

Not needed--we can just profile brown people as being illegal immigrants and arabic people as being terrorists.

[grumbler]

I never understood the paranoia about national ID cards.  Are there any non-idiotic arguments against it?

Do you mean arguments that an idiot could understand?  Probably not.

I don't understand paranoia, but I understand the logical arguments against a national ID card.  They are not fully persuasive, but they give any non-idiot pause.

[Martinus]

Is the opposition against the concept of an ID card in general, or that it would be biometric?

[Iormlund]

It does sound like idiotic paranoia. I've had an ID for 20 years and have never been asked for it for no reason, even though AFAIK (not a lawyer) cops can ask for it when they please.
I have been asked to produce it when acting as witness, entering certain official buildings, dealing with the public school system, our IRS and DMV. Which to me sounds entirely logical.
By far most of the people that I've showed it to were not officials of the State, but rather gate security guards and other employees at office or manufacturing premises, banks, shops or supermarkets.

[grumbler]

Is the opposition against the concept of an ID card in general, or that it would be biometric?

I think the opposition is based around 3 main objections:
1.  Compelling law-abiding citizens to carry an ID card and punishing them if they don't/forget/lose it and don't replace it
2.  Cost to set up and enforce
3.  The guarantee that the government will fuck up the database and force some lawful employees to jump through hoops just to prove their right to hold down their own jobs.

I am not totally convinced by these arguments, but I think non-idiots can probably recognize that they are legitimate.  Idiots will call them paranoia, of course.

[DGuller]

I never understood the paranoia about national ID cards.  Are there any non-idiotic arguments against it?

Do you mean arguments that an idiot could understand?  Probably not.

Huh, really?  Do you actually think that it was a clever play on words on your part?

[Fate]

I never understood the paranoia about national ID cards.  Are there any non-idiotic arguments against it?

Do you mean arguments that an idiot could understand?  Probably not.

Huh, really?  Do you actually think that it was a clever play on words on your part?

Grumbler is autistic. He's trying the best he can.

[DGuller]

The thing is, he doesn't need to try so hard.  He's very naturally gifted, so there is no need for him to force it in such a ridiculous manner.

[The Brain]

Is the American proposal that you should be forced to carry the card at all times?

Edit: and is the American proposal that it should be mandatory to own an ID card?

[DGuller]

Is the American proposal that you should be forced to carry the card at all times?

Edit: and is the American proposal that it should be mandatory to own an ID card?

I'm not sure why people assume that the first thing has to be the case.  What's the connection between having a centralized system of giving people IDs, and forcing them to carry it with them at all times?  Seems like scaremongering to me.  I also don't see why the ownership has to be mandatory, although as with driver's/non-driver's licenses, you can make it mandatory in practice by requiring it to be presented in various places, like DMVs and such.

[grumbler]

The thing is, he doesn't need to try so hard.  He's very naturally gifted, so there is no need for him to force it in such a ridiculous manner.

Oh, noes!  I am being double-teamed by the two most credible and intellectually honest posters on the board! 

If Hans will jump in here and join them, we will have the trifecta!