Nazism: Rational Evil?

[Faeelin]

While we're on the topic of the Third Reich, I recently finally got around to reading Wages of Destruction, by Adam Tooze, which is chilling in a way the author may not have intended.

Traditionally, I've always thought the Third Reich was basically batshit insane. But the author makes a fairly interesting argument, that much of what Hitler was trying to do was basically a last-ditch effort to allow Germany the economic and demographic base to compete in a world of empires and continent-sized economies, like the United States and the British Empire.

Indeed, at one point Tooze explicitly compares Hitler's ideology to the "Weimar consensus" of raising the German standard of living through free trade, foreign investment, and gradual economic development, which frankly hadn't worked, as the Depression indicated.

I'm not saying that what Germany did was justified in any way. But it suggests that the Nazi ideology was in a sense more rational than I'd previously thought.

Not sure if this makes any sense, but the book was frankly disturbing to me.

[Queequeg]

Understand completely.  Its worth remembering that the "ideal Nazi" was concerned far more with the relative power and influence of Germany in a few hundred years, what's a hundred million people in the short term?

[Sheilbh]

I don't think Nazism was that rational, I've always viewed it as German Romanticism taken to the ultimate extreme.

[Norgy]

I don't think Nazism was that rational, I've always viewed it as German Romanticism taken to the ultimate extreme.

I agree. And I also blame Hegel. For everything.

[Faeelin]

I don't think Nazism was that rational, I've always viewed it as German Romanticism taken to the ultimate extreme.

It certainly had a strong Romanticist trend. But if you look at what they tried to do, it makes a disturbing amount of sense if you start from certain premises.

For instance, Versailles was all about national-determination, and showed how centuries of German rule could be undone based on it. But if you get rid of the Poles, well...

Another interesting look was how Germany's policy of extermination grew out of the simple shortages brought on by the war. The Central government lacked the resources to feed everyone during wartime, especially with German demands. The solution? Set of a ration system based on nationality, with Jews given the least. Once you're already okay with starving them to death, it's a small step to try to make more active steps to get rid of them.

[Ed Anger]

If you want more third Reich book stuff, I recommend Richard Evan's Coming of the Third Reich and The Third Reich in Power.

Haven't read the third book, the Third Reich at War.

[Syt]

I don't think Nazism was that rational, I've always viewed it as German Romanticism taken to the ultimate extreme.

There's some truth in that. Many head nazis were big fans of the Romanticists, esp. the more nationalist ones like Ernst Moritz Arndt. It's a reason why romanticism has a bit difficult standing in German literary studies as it's now associated to some degree with the Nazis (with some exceptions, like Adorno, Hoffmann, Novalis and a few others).

[Habbaku]

Rational Evil : The lost tenth alignment?

[PDH]

The problem with attempting to understand Nazism is the assumption of insanity on the part of all the actors both great and small.  Reason did not play a great role in the assumptions made, the desire to met out racial penetential-killings, or the prioritization of such a solution...however the chilling fact is that it was reasonable people who were able to distance themselves from the effects of their actions that allowed the whole process to occurr.  The socialization of evil acts, the abnormal becoming the norm, is a scary process.

[Oexmelin]

The French Philosopher Vincent Descombes tried to revisit the Rational Nazi paradox as a means to ask the question if political philosophy can help us in the decision-making process: I'll try to post it later when I return home.

[Admiral Yi]

A country can build a vibrant economy almost completely on skilled labor, as modern Japan illustrates.  Hitler's catch 22 was that he wanted to conquer militarily and that elminates foreign sources of raw materials, so he had to conquer raw materials.

[Faeelin]

A country can build a vibrant economy almost completely on skilled labor, as modern Japan illustrates.  Hitler's catch 22 was that he wanted to conquer militarily and that elminates foreign sources of raw materials, so he had to conquer raw materials.

No, it can build a vibrant economy on skilled labor in an atmosphere of liberalism and free trade. In the 1920s and early 1930s, America was protectionist; Britain ran towards protectionism in 1931, etc. In this situation, Germany was left with... what?

[alfred russel]

Economic Policy: Really dumb.
Military Policy: Really really dumb.
Social Policy: Completely batshit.

The Nazis were the type of government you might anticipate if undereducated and racist right wing thugs took control of a western government. Maybe their ideas were rational within their worldview, but there worldview was still dumb.

[alfred russel]

A country can build a vibrant economy almost completely on skilled labor, as modern Japan illustrates.  Hitler's catch 22 was that he wanted to conquer militarily and that elminates foreign sources of raw materials, so he had to conquer raw materials.

No, it can build a vibrant economy on skilled labor in an atmosphere of liberalism and free trade. In the 1920s and early 1930s, America was protectionist; Britain ran towards protectionism in 1931, etc. In this situation, Germany was left with... what?

It didn't help their economy to go to war with the world.

[Tamas]

"Rational Evil" was Stalin.