Muslims 'Greet' Returning British Troops on Parade

[Neil]

Btw check out the one with the bluetooth headset.  I bet he's taking business calls while calling soldiers "butchers"  ;D

"No you cannot have your credit card balance, imperialist pig!  Your account has been closed!  Allahu ackbar!"

[Sheilbh]

So they had a debate over whether or not it was acceptable to murder authors for what they write?

And this is evidence for how reasonable and moderate they are - not because murdering authors isn't sucha  great idea, but because of how it looks to others?

Yeah.  Because it reaches the argument of does what we do match what we declare ourselves to be.  It's a more nuanced eyebrow raise at 'the religion of peace stuff'.  And no religious figure in the world would start off their argument from the basic premise that liberalism's very good and that we should have free speech.

That's why in the Sikh riots over a play that was offensive to their religion they got support from local Muslims, local Hindus and the local Christian churches including the CofE and the RC Bishops.

[Valmy]

while on the other arguing with the radicals from a set of basic Islamic ideals rather than the truths of a secular Western perspective.

Edit: nevermind I was confused by who possessed the Islamic ideals in that sentence.

[Admiral Yi]

But the other thing is that if the moderates please us then chances are they've lost credibility with the great mass of Muslims who are somewherein between Mullah Omar and Mona Sidiqqi.  So basically moderates have to speak with a forked tongue.

If we've reached the point where Shelf is saying moderate Muslims are a fringe we can declare victory and move on to the next topic.

[Sheilbh]

while on the other arguing with the radicals from a set of basic Islamic ideals rather than the truths of a secular Western perspective.

Now wait a second here.  I thought the moderates were preaching that real true Islam is all about peace and it is the radicals who are not Islamic.  You make it sound like the moderates do not actually believe that and radical terrorists are in fact the real Muslims.

I think they're both Muslims and are having a genuine fight about the future of their faith.  I think Islam can be a religion of peace but the moderates, if they're to have any chance don't want to base their faith on what we want or western liberal precepts, but on Islam.  The challenge for the mdoerates is to reconcile the violence within the Quran with the other stuff.

Though of course it changes in different cultural contexts.

Incidentally the thing that really struck me was how much of a higher class martyr for free speech we used to have.  Salman Rushdie, genuinely erudite and witty and intelligent, a guy who wrote remarkable books and you sense didn't really want to provoke this countroversy.  A man whose life was really almost destroyed by the strain of being under police protection.

Now we get Geert Wilders.

[Sheilbh]

But the other thing is that if the moderates please us then chances are they've lost credibility with the great mass of Muslims who are somewherein between Mullah Omar and Mona Sidiqqi.  So basically moderates have to speak with a forked tongue.

If we've reached the point where Shelf is saying moderate Muslims are a fringe we can declare victory and move on to the next topic.

Anyone with a position on religion is a fringe.  Most people just go to the Mosque/Church/Gurdwara once a week, or on the holidays, and don't really think about it very much for the rest of the time.

Plus I think it depends what we mean by moderate and radical.

[Admiral Yi]

Anyone with a position on religion is a fringe.  Most people just go to the Mosque/Church/Gurdwara once a week, or on the holidays, and don't really think about it very much for the rest of the time.

Plus I think it depends what we mean by moderate and radical.

We're not talking about about positions on religion.  We're talking about positions on decency, justice, freedom of expression, reciprocity and political violence

[The Brain]

Fucking savages.

[derspiess]

Now we get Geert Wilders.

And what's wrong with Geert?

[Berkut]

I love the lengths that we will go to to justify inaction on the part of the "moderate Muslims". we create these elaborate theories about how how they cannot speak out because no one will listen, and now this new one where they could speak out, but are careful not to because they don't want to lose credibility with slightly less mdoerate Muslims.

Like all the supposedly millions Muslims out there are all sitting around going "Damn, we really want to speak out in strong terms in support of liberal Western values, but nobody will listen! Or we have to be careful not to piss other off  -however shall we approach this oh-so-difficult problem!".

It is pure fancy - just a self created justification for their relative silence. There is no actual reasons given for this, no evidence that it is the case, just an argument for why this could be the reason for their silence.

Well, here is another reason, and Occam suggests mine is closer to the truth:

They don't give a shit. They don't think the radicals are so wrong as to need repudiation. That in fact their silence is an accurate representation of their views on the issue, in a general sense.

Like I said before - they can easily dispel this notion if it is incorrect. Their silence is deafening.

[The Brain]

raciss >

[derspiess]

Berkut will no longer be allowed entry into the UK due to his hate speech

[DisturbedPervert]

And what's wrong with Geert?

It's too bad that gay dude isn't still around.  It was much more difficult to dismiss that guy as a evil racist like they do with Geert.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

oddest website I think.
Lots of stuff there on islam, much of it written by what appear to be ex-muslims.
And yet... there's times they make Wilders seem like a real moderate.
That said, I'm pretty much certain that it is a better strategy to never yield an inch to islam than to do differently. Religions with inventors like mohamed don't need to exist, just like ideologies with leaders like hitler or stalin don't need to exist either.

[derspiess]

It's too bad that gay dude isn't still around.  It was much more difficult to dismiss that guy as a evil racist like they do with Geert.

:worship: