Sweden and the Great War

[Razgovory]

Question - Given the fact the Dardanelles  was closed and the Trans-Siberian railroad not yet in operation didn't all of the Entente supplies and arms shipped to Russia have to go through Scandinavia by default? Wouldn't most of this be cut off if Sweden enters the war on Germany's side causing the Russian war effort significant harm?

How developed was Murmansk at the time?

Tran-Siberian railroad was in operation at the time.   It was slow, but it worked.

[jimmy olsen]

Question - Given the fact the Dardanelles  was closed and the Trans-Siberian railroad not yet in operation didn't all of the Entente supplies and arms shipped to Russia have to go through Scandinavia by default? Wouldn't most of this be cut off if Sweden enters the war on Germany's side causing the Russian war effort significant harm?

How developed was Murmansk at the time?

The TSRR was in operation before 1905 (remember the Russo-Japanese War fought after Russia completed it and started to dominate manchuria and, crucially, Korea?).   

Ah, wiki said it was completed in 1916. (Maybe that was the 2nd track, allowing two way transit?)

Still, if the TSRR and Murmansk RR didn't have the capacity to ship what they received in our timeline, they certainly can't deal with the extra load that will result if the rail lines from Sweden are cut off.

[Ideologue]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

[Tonitrus]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

[Ideologue]

[Admiral Yi]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

US intervened in Siberia as well.

[Ideologue]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

US intervened in Siberia as well.

Indeed, but I don't recall any instance of actual fighting between U.S. forces and the Bolsheviks (or Kolchak's faction) in Siberia.  Whereas I'm pretty sure I remember reading about Americans engaging Bolsheviks in northern Russia in combat.

[Admiral Yi]

Indeed, but I don't recall any instance of actual fighting between U.S. forces and the Bolsheviks (or Kolchak's faction) in Siberia.

We fought some banditos that called themselves Bolsheviks.

[Ideologue]

Indeed, but I don't recall any instance of actual fighting between U.S. forces and the Bolsheviks (or Kolchak's faction) in Siberia.

We fought some banditos that called themselves Bolsheviks.

Ah, well.  Perhaps we did.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

US intervened in Siberia as well.

Indeed, but I don't recall any instance of actual fighting between U.S. forces and the Bolsheviks (or Kolchak's faction) in Siberia.  Whereas I'm pretty sure I remember reading about Americans engaging Bolsheviks in northern Russia in combat.

The goals of the Siberian intervention were a. help get the Czech Legion back home, and b. prevent Japan from getting any ideas about annexing Vladivostok or other parts of Siberia.

As an ironic aside, the US was intervening in favor of the Bolsheviks in Murmansk until the British and French called it for being offsides, whereupon US troops started fighting the Bolshies briefly before being withdrawn.

Really? I had no idea. Pretty interesting.

[dps]

The goals of the Siberian intervention were a. help get the Czech Legion back home, and b. prevent Japan from getting any ideas about annexing Vladivostok or other parts of Siberia.

And as far as a. goes, in the end the Czechs couldn't ship out through Vladisvostok, so they had to fight their way all the way across Asia and back to Europe.

[jimmy olsen]

The goals of the Siberian intervention were a. help get the Czech Legion back home, and b. prevent Japan from getting any ideas about annexing Vladivostok or other parts of Siberia.

Why bother? Whether the Whites or the Reds won the Japanese would have been kicked out of Siberia eventually by the Russians.

[Valdemar]

So what happened to abandon this very sensible strategy for WW2?

The advent of the bomber pretty much negated it.

That, and money, the 30s brought Labour to power and investments in military was cut to nothing and a pacifist stance adopted.

The ww1 build up was a result of the loss in 1864 and a rather unique governing form under estrup for something like 20 years. Great investments in military fortifications, weapons and conscriptions, something like 25-50 percentage of the male population could be under arms within seems.

V

[Razgovory]

I think the confrontation in northern Russia was the only time the Americans and Soviets (or Russians) ever directly fought, discounting Soviet air force volunteers in the Korean and Vietnam (?) wars.

US intervened in Siberia as well.

Indeed, but I don't recall any instance of actual fighting between U.S. forces and the Bolsheviks (or Kolchak's faction) in Siberia.  Whereas I'm pretty sure I remember reading about Americans engaging Bolsheviks in northern Russia in combat.

The US clashed with both sides, but the commander hated the Whites, who he saw has little more then in bandits.  I remember reading about US forces seizing an armored train that attacked them.  They lost a one man ( an LT that fell under the train), and captured the crew and a White general on board.  The US commander Graves lamented they didn't just string up all the Whites right there.

[Razgovory]

Ah, wiki said it was completed in 1916. (Maybe that was the 2nd track, allowing two way transit?)

Still, if the TSRR and Murmansk RR didn't have the capacity to ship what they received in our timeline, they certainly can't deal with the extra load that will result if the rail lines from Sweden are cut off.

What exactly are you asking here?  The main White Sea port was Arkangel, not Murmask.  Besides, Murmansk (not to mention Arkangel), was a long way from the Swedish border.  They'd have to cover a very long distance with few roads and very difficult terrain.