Law Enforcement and Deadly Force

[grumbler]

I would say, Cal, that the cop was justified in using deadly force in step 8.  However, the department needs better guns.

[ulmont]

6.  Cop draws sidearm and points it at the suspect, ordering suspect to stop.

7.  Suspect ignores order and continues to advance.

8.  Cop fires one round at the suspect, striking them in the midsection/abdomen/stomach/whatever.

This timeline looks questionable in terms of the gunshot; a naked man advancing is not obviously threatening deadly force.

[crazy canuck]

In the new and improved version, yes, of course deadly force should be used.  I have been told that police here are trained that if they are put into a position where they are required to fire that they are to use deadly force.

ie the only times they should be firing their weapons is when deadly force is required.

Another interesting point in the story is that the Taser failed.  Tasers have come under a lot of scrutiny here and police forces have had to have all units tested before they are used in the field.  The suspicion was that they were putting out to much voltage but surprisingly the tests showed that most put out an ineffective amount.

[Caliga]

Also, I forgot to mention that the house was apparently searched after the shooting (not sure why) and a large amount of drugs were removed from it.  Given the suspect's behavior, it seems likely he was high on something.

[crazy canuck]

6.  Cop draws sidearm and points it at the suspect, ordering suspect to stop.

7.  Suspect ignores order and continues to advance.

8.  Cop fires one round at the suspect, striking them in the midsection/abdomen/stomach/whatever.

This timeline looks questionable in terms of the gunshot; a naked man advancing is not obviously threatening deadly force.

Disagree completely.  He has already had a verbal altercation with the cop.  Has shrugged off a taser and his coming at the cop. What would you have the cop do?  She already used her nonleathal means of force and it failed.

[Caliga]

This timeline looks questionable in terms of the gunshot; a naked man advancing is not obviously threatening deadly force.

What if he's saying "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU YOU FUCKING BITCH!!!" ?

[Malthus]

I'd say in the new, improved version the cop's shooting of Naked Man was justified. Though obviously it would have been better to have two cops respond and not one. I thought cops usually worked in pairs.

[ulmont]

Disagree completely.  He has already had a verbal altercation with the cop.  Has shrugged off a taser and his coming at the cop. What would you have the cop do?  She already used her nonleathal means of force and it failed.

If the taser fails, break out the goddamn nightstick. 

Police officers are supposed to meet non-lethal force (or the threat thereof) with non-lethal force, lethal force (or the threat thereof) with lethal force.  It's not a "fire the taser, then fire the gun" model.

What if he's saying "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU YOU FUCKING BITCH!!!" ?

Closer, quite possibly justified.  I'm still thinking that shooting an unarmed suspect is a complete police failure, and certainly should not be a "taze then shoot" model.

[Caliga]

I'd say in the new, improved version the cop's shooting of Naked Man was justified. Though obviously it would have been better to have two cops respond and not one. I thought cops usually worked in pairs.

I have a vision of her in my head as Officer Hooks from Police Academy, in which case Bob Goldthwait should have been there, yeah.

[Caliga]

If the taser fails, break out the goddamn nightstick. 

Police officers are supposed to meet non-lethal force (or the threat thereof) with non-lethal force, lethal force (or the threat thereof) with lethal force.  It's not a "fire the taser, then fire the gun" model.

You assume she was carrying a nightstick.  I don't know for sure she had one, though.  The local cops in my county don't seem to carry them on their utility belts (I guess they could have them in their cars).

[ulmont]

Though obviously it would have been better to have two cops respond and not one. I thought cops usually worked in pairs.

In a lot of smaller towns, and even in larger ones depending on the assignment, police officers are alone.

[ulmont]

You assume she was carrying a nightstick.

No, I assume that "taze then shoot" is an extremely poor model to apply against unarmed suspects.  Are police officers no longer trained in compliance holds, etc.?

[Berkut]

I would say, Cal, that the cop was justified in using deadly force in step 8.  However, the department needs better guns.

Why?

I don't see how he is threatening the use of deadly force.

[crazy canuck]

If the taser fails, break out the goddamn nightstick. 

Police officers are supposed to meet non-lethal force (or the threat thereof) with non-lethal force, lethal force (or the threat thereof) with lethal force.  It's not a "fire the taser, then fire the gun" model.

Do you have some authority for that proposition?  It would be a wierd policy indeed if a police officer was forced to engage in unarmed combat with a perp and could only use their gun if the perp was similarly armed.

This person was coming at the officer.  In your world when shoud the officer be permitted to shoot.  We already know from this very example that by the time the perp got to her it was too late because he was able to get the gun and shoot her.

[Barrister]

Is it wise to send a single woman cop to a domestic disturbance situation?

Why does it matter that the cop is a woman?