Afghan Marksmen - Forget the Fables

[grumbler]

An article I have come across from early 2009 that seems to have some bearing on the subject of Afghan marksmanship. Please note the story involving the goat.

Indeed.  The problem the author ignores is supplying ammo.  The Afghan Taliban isn't relying on sniping because it is traditional, but because it is what their infrastructure will support.

One cannot understand war by examining tactics alone.  One must look at logistics as the real argument of kings.

[Agelastus]

This entry, of course, completely mis-states the issue of the British armies that invaded Afghanistan 3 times, but what can on expect from an amateur site like this?

Assuming you mean the bit where he speaks of 3 invasions in the 1800s, it is technically true (1839, 1842 and 1878) so I'll let him by on that one. It's the bit below it in the paragraph which makes me shudder, given the way it reeks of casual racism. Does he know the average height of a British soldier of the era?

[grumbler]

This entry, of course, completely mis-states the issue of the British armies that invaded Afghanistan 3 times, but what can on expect from an amateur site like this?

Assuming you mean the bit where he speaks of 3 invasions in the 1800s, it is technically true (1839, 1842 and 1878) so I'll let him by on that one. It's the bit below it in the paragraph which makes me shudder, given the way it reeks of casual racism. Does he know the average height of a British soldier of the era?

Plus, the Brown Bess wasn't the arm of the Indian Army in 1878, and not much in 1842 (which was really just a continuation of 1839, when only a portion of the troops still had the brown Bess).  the fact that the "warlike tribes' of India were better soldiers than many British troops was demonstrated in the Mutiny, but I have never seen any indication that arms were scaled differently for Indian troops than British.

[Agelastus]

Plus, the Brown Bess wasn't the arm of the Indian Army in 1878, and not much in 1842 (which was really just a continuation of 1839, when only a portion of the troops still had the brown Bess).  the fact that the "warlike tribes' of India were better soldiers than many British troops was demonstrated in the Mutiny, but I have never seen any indication that arms were scaled differently for Indian troops than British.

He may, again to be charitable, be being mislead by the fact that the "Indian pattern" Brown Bess had the shortest barrel length of all the land-pattern muskets of the type, and was used by the East India company forces before the British army adopted it, without realising that post 1802 the newer British designs of Brown Besses were produced to the same length. The India pattern muskets are still the lightest of all the patterns though, which puzzles me...assuming that the information readily available on the internet is accurate, of course.

The overall tone of the paragraph doesn't leave me feeling very charitable, however. It sounds racist, as I said.

[Lucidor]

I didn't think anyone thought of the Afghans as good shots.  I mean when footage of the first battle in the war was shown on television during the Battle of Tora Bora Afghans were often shooting with out even looking at the enemy.

When I saw that, I figured they were just that good. 

[Syt]

Taliban sniper training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrvvC9YeCRQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk7RGT5LbI4&feature=related



(Yeah, those are not taliban, and that's not a combat rifle, but hey ... it's fun!)

[Syt]

This is more on the spot, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zL9AKXxDW0&annotation_id=annotation_919890&feature=iv

Failiban: "We don't care about our lives!" ... "And it's cold, too!"

[Alcibiades]

In their defense, I challenge any of you to sit still and fire very well placed shots under fire without training.....It's hard enough when you've been trained to.   

[Syt]

This is more on the spot, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zL9AKXxDW0&annotation_id=annotation_919890&feature=iv

Failiban: "We don't care about our lives!" ... "And it's cold, too!"

Shit, this would make a great comedy series. "It's D!"

[Syt]

In their defense, I challenge any of you to sit still and fire very well placed shots under fire without training.....It's hard enough when you've been trained to.   

Never hit anything with my G3 at 100m lieing still in bright weather. MG3 was a different matter, though.

[Alcibiades]

Who were you firing at? 

( Let me guess, J-O-Os? )

[DisturbedPervert]

This is more on the spot, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zL9AKXxDW0&annotation_id=annotation_919890&feature=iv

Failiban: "We don't care about our lives!" ... "And it's cold, too!"

Mines are useless.  Everyday, we press the button and nothing happens

[Siege]

Interesting.

I wonder what happened? Is it the Russian gear that sucks? Lack of training? Both? Too much time pass praying?

I can't tell about afghans. I haven't fought them yet. But about arabs, I can tell you that it is their stupid religion. Arabs think their moongod will guide their weapons, and that relying on training and skill is lack of faith. They believe too much in fate, that what's going to happen is going to happen.

I thought the Talibani were better shots, because I know not all muslims are that retarded. Beduins, for example, are very practical folks, and have some serious marksmanship skills. Also, we faced a couple chechenian snipers last deployment, and they were good, but then, there were only two of them. Too small a sample to make a judment.

In the end it all comes to training. Arabs don't like training. They think it is not necesary because their moongod will deliver. What that means in reality, is that only the real nutcases fight the good fight. The average brave arab warrior fire a burst without even taking the time to aim and flees running like hell. They call that "tactics".

Now, if they manage to hit a couple of us and pin down the rest, they get like wild dogs after a wounded cat, and try to overrun our position. But the moment we start shooting down their dudes, their break their assault and run for cover, trying to put some buildings in between, to break contact with us.

They are not stupid, they just can't shoot, because they have a lot of cultural bagage that don't allow them to improve their marksmanship skills.

I remember I told you about a few firefights with them, and how much they suck with guns. There is a reason why IEDs have become their favor weapons system.

[Razgovory]

This is more on the spot, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zL9AKXxDW0&annotation_id=annotation_919890&feature=iv

Failiban: "We don't care about our lives!" ... "And it's cold, too!"

Maybe they are taliban because they can't get work anywhere else.

[Neil]

In the end it all comes to training. Arabs don't like training. They think it is not necesary because their moongod will deliver.

You say things like that all the time, about how no bullet can kill you because you think you're a superjew.