The Second Coming

[crazy canuck]

One thing is certain Grumbler.  It is the lucky student that has you as a teacher.

Yeah, learn this interpretation of a poem that isn't want the poet intended. Yay!

Too much work for you?  After all in Grumbler's class you would not be able to get by with the Coles notes interpretation.

[garbon]

Too much work for you?  After all in Grumbler's class you would not be able to get by with the Coles notes interpretation.

Sounds like a lesson in pointlessness. I wasn't really interested in my high school teachers' pet theories.

[grumbler]

One thing is certain Grumbler.  It is the lucky student that has you as a teacher.

Yeah, learn this interpretation of a poem that isn't want the poet intended. Yay!

Better than to falsely argue that the poet's intentions are actually known. 

My purpose in using this poem is clearly stated.  The students were not learning any interpretation, they were creating an interpretation based on the assumption that the falcon was nationalism.  The poem allowed them to put a lot of what they knew about the interwar period into a single narrative, and associate that narrative with powerful images and evocative vocabulary.  Sorry you don't get this, but then I am not responsible for your education or lack thereof.

The important thing is that my students got it.  The fact that it was a fun class to teach (and to take) is icing on the cake.

[garbon]

So?  The point of poetry is not to guess what the poet intended.

Really? So if I came up with an interpretation about how Paul Revere's Ride was about the invasion of Britain by the Chinese, I would have satisfied the point of poetry?

[grumbler]

Sounds like a lesson in pointlessness. I wasn't really interested in my high school teachers' pet theories.

I would note that this was an AP class.  I wouldn't have expected the typical student to get it, and in fact I rather suspect that if I tried it in my regular history classes, the students there would react exactly as you have.  They would be trying to figure out what the poet "meant' and my "pet theory" was, rather than using the poem as a tool to explore what they already knew.

[Berkut]

So?  The point of poetry is not to guess what the poet intended.

Really? So if I came up with an interpretation about how Paul Revere's Ride was about the invasion of Britain by the Chinese, I would have satisfied the point of poetry?

If you can argue a coherent interpretation that has meaning for you, then sure, why not?

I didn't know poetry had such a clearly defined "point" that it could result in someone missing it if in fact they interpreted it in some other manner than your own.

I am no lit guy - far from it. Like I said earlier, I am not very comfortable trying to derive meaning from this kind of thing, because I am poor at vocalizing my own interpretations.

But isn't the mark of excellent poetry is that it can in fact mean different things to different people, or even the same people under differing contexts?

[garbon]

Sorry you don't get this, but then I am not responsible for your education or lack thereof.

Well power to you and your students. I stick by my statement though that I don't see this exercise as a reason that people should be lucky to have you as a teacher.

Anyway, why is the English teacher annoyed? Is he just annoyed that you've covered material that belongs in "his domain?"

[garbon]

I would note that this was an AP class.  I wouldn't have expected the typical student to get it, and in fact I rather suspect that if I tried it in my regular history classes, the students there would react exactly as you have.  They would be trying to figure out what the poet "meant' and my "pet theory" was, rather than using the poem as a tool to explore what they already knew.

Yep, I never took an AP class. I was the typical student.

[garbon]

If you can argue a coherent interpretation that has meaning for you, then sure, why not?

I didn't know poetry had such a clearly defined "point" that it could result in someone missing it if in fact they interpreted it in some other manner than your own.

Hey, Valmy was the one who said the point of poetry is to not get the author's intentions.

[Martinus]

I would note that this was an AP class.  I wouldn't have expected the typical student to get it, and in fact I rather suspect that if I tried it in my regular history classes, the students there would react exactly as you have.  They would be trying to figure out what the poet "meant' and my "pet theory" was, rather than using the poem as a tool to explore what they already knew.

Yep, I never took an AP class. I was the typical student.

What does "AP" stand for?

[Valmy]

Really? So if I came up with an interpretation about how Paul Revere's Ride was about the invasion of Britain by the Chinese, I would have satisfied the point of poetry?

What if the poem Paul Revere's ride was actually about something entirely different than it appears on the surface, is it the goal of the reader to try to piece that out or to take whatever the poem says to them?

[crazy canuck]

Garbon I am surprised that you would be critical of a very interesting method Grumbler has developed to teach history.  I would have loved to be in his class.  Learning this way is so much better then simply learning timelines by rote.  His students have to understand the the material to understand the interpretive excercise.  It is that understanding that makes learning fun.

[Berkut]

Really? So if I came up with an interpretation about how Paul Revere's Ride was about the invasion of Britain by the Chinese, I would have satisfied the point of poetry?

What if the poem Paul Revere's ride was actually about something entirely different than it appears on the surface, is it the goal of the reader to try to piece that out or to take whatever the poem says to them?

Yes?

[Valmy]

Hey, Valmy was the one who said the point of poetry is to not get the author's intentions.

No, you were the one implying it was wrong somehow to interpret a poem other than the way the author intended which is absurd.

[garbon]

What does "AP" stand for?

Advanced Placement. At the end of the course you take an exam and depending how you do, you can use them to place out of basic requirements in college.  So if you get a 4 or 5 on an AP chemistry exam, you can then pass out of basic chem at your university.

Where offered, AP exams and SAT IIs have become necessities for those inclined to go to our nation's top universities.