Pot measure qualifies for Nov. ballot

[viper37]

Yeah, because we know that all sellers of legal products also sell all illegal products. 

look at tobacco companies.  Many were sued by the Government of Canada for participating in contraband and illegal import of US tobacco products.

[lustindarkness]

Fucking potheads.

Only if they are cute.

[viper37]

And yet there are distinct dealers & supplier chains for alcohol as opposed to "marijuana, cocaine, pot, hash, acid, speeds, etc."  Why might that be?

I can buy beer&cheap wine at every corner store or grocery if I want to.
Only stronger alcohol is regulated here, and that's already too much, it should be sold anywhere.

[DGuller]

• Some people won't like it that their pot doesn't stone them as much as before.  They will either turn to black market pot (stronger for the same price) or other, stronger drugs (something many of them already do once the initinal "wow" of pot is gone)
  
• If you tax it, you will make it more expansive than illegal pot, and many consumers will turn to black market.  There's already a lot of contraband with cigarettes and alcohol going on, where we can get stronger cigarettes and stronger alcohol for cheaper than it costs in stores
  

So your point is that pot legalization would actually decrease the share of the pot sold legally?

[viper37]

Didn't used to be that way - in the Prohibition era, it was Mob all the way.

lots of Canadians made cash that way. 

My great-uncle (the one the family doesn't talk about much) was in the Jewish Mafia, booze-running. He wasn't very good at it, or was unlucky - some rivals shot him so many times, they had to sweep up what was left and bury him in a bag.

Well, there's no longer a Jewish Mafia as active as it was in the past here, since they all moved to the US after making tons of money selling legal alcohol

But there is still a black market, an important one, mostly coming out of the indian reservations for tobacco&alcohol, as well as drugs&weapons.

Many people in Quebec still buy their cigarettes from black market dealers or indians.  If you live in Montreal, all you have to do is go to Kanesatake (near Oka, on the south shore, you use the Mercier bridge) and immediatly once you got out of the bridge you start seeing signs for cigarettes to sale, way below the normal price.  Technically, it should be sold only to indians not whites, but we all know its a joke.

I recently learnt that my father has a criminal file after getting caught (twice) with illegal cigarettes.  As I said, fairly easy to get it.

As for alcohol... well, it's fairly easy to get black market stuff, if you're feeling courageous.

[viper37]

So your point is that pot legalization would actually decrease the share of the pot sold legally?

my point is that it won't change anything, there will be more pot users and more problems.

[viper37]

Pot laws are practically the poster children for the puritan nanny state.

Not really.  Speed limits are the poster children for the puritan nanny state on par with the 0,05 limit on alcohol for driving.

[DGuller]

So your point is that pot legalization would actually decrease the share of the pot sold legally?

my point is that it won't change anything, there will be more pot users and more problems.

I'm not sure you've made a convincing case.  Just because pot users will be tempted to still buy the pot illegally is not proving any compelling point that I can see.

[DGuller]

Pot laws are practically the poster children for the puritan nanny state.

Not really.  Speed limits are the poster children for the puritan nanny state on par with the 0,05 limit on alcohol for driving.

Isn't there a slight difference between activities that can harm innocent bystanders, and activities that can only harm those who engage in them?

[HVC]

Pot laws are practically the poster children for the puritan nanny state.

Not really.  Speed limits are the poster children for the puritan nanny state on par with the 0,05 limit on alcohol for driving.

Isn't there a slight difference between activities that can harm innocent bystanders, and activities that can only harm those who engage in them?

yes, the difference is that Viper likes to speed and drink lol

[viper37]

Isn't there a slight difference between activities that can harm innocent bystanders, and activities that can only harm those who engage in them?

So, we should repel any and all law targetting smokers.  I suppose that by your silly definition, they are affecting only themselves.  Let kids smoke, let anyone smoke anywhere they want to. 
Stop enforcing silly laws on age limit for alcohol, let the 10 year old drink whiskey if they want to.
And let's all pay for their healthcare and long term treatment they need later on in their life.

[viper37]

yes, the difference is that Viper likes to speed and drink lol
yes I do.
But I don't think 0,05 is dangerous.  AFAIK, no studies prove any significant change in the number of accidents between states that enforce 0,05 instead of 0,08.
Nor do I think that driving 140km/h on an highway is dangerous.  I was driving about 55km/h Tuesday and I got a very close call.  In fact, 2 very close call, just one worst than any other.  Speed had nothing to do with it, since I was already stopped for the 1st one.

[Gups]

So your point is that pot legalization would actually decrease the share of the pot sold legally?

my point is that it won't change anything, there will be more pot users and more problems.

It'll save a fortune in law enforcement and raise tax revenues.

On the other hand ther's no evidence that there will be more pot users and more "problems" whatever those might be. The limited evidence that  there is (massive increase in cannabis use sinceits prohibition, lower levels of use in the Netherlands since decriminalisation) indicates the opposite, but it is limited.

[Malthus]

Well, there's no longer a Jewish Mafia as active as it was in the past here, since they all moved to the US after making tons of money selling legal alcohol

There is truth in that ... at least, the ones who lived.

But there is still a black market, an important one, mostly coming out of the indian reservations for tobacco&alcohol, as well as drugs&weapons.

Many people in Quebec still buy their cigarettes from black market dealers or indians.  If you live in Montreal, all you have to do is go to Kanesatake (near Oka, on the south shore, you use the Mercier bridge) and immediatly once you got out of the bridge you start seeing signs for cigarettes to sale, way below the normal price.  Technically, it should be sold only to indians not whites, but we all know its a joke.

I recently learnt that my father has a criminal file after getting caught (twice) with illegal cigarettes.  As I said, fairly easy to get it.

As for alcohol... well, it's fairly easy to get black market stuff, if you're feeling courageous.

Yeah, but that is mainly an artifact of peculiar local conditions: namely, the wierd tax treatment of Indians and the fact that Indians as "nations" that straddle the border can easily smuggle stuff over, plus the close proximity in Montreal of Indian reserves to a major urban centre.

The vast majority of Canadians do not really have easy access to black market ciggies and booze. Both can be obtained, of course, if you really want, but the volume of legal sales in Toronto far, far outstrips the illegal - probably by a factor of a thousand or so.

[garbon]

So, we should repel any and all law targetting smokers.  I suppose that by your silly definition, they are affecting only themselves.  Let kids smoke, let anyone smoke anywhere they want to.

Many people smoke pot in their homes. Who else is being harmed? I doubt the idea is to allow pot users smoke in places where cigarettes aren't allowed to be smoked.

Stop enforcing silly laws on age limit for alcohol, let the 10 year old drink whiskey if they want to.
And let's all pay for their healthcare and long term treatment they need later on in their life.

In the ballot initiative in question, you would be allowed to have pot once you were 21.  Also, is it just me or are you making the arguments about how alcohol is a problem?