Millions of Iraqis defy bomb and rocket attacks to vote

[HVC]

No, you just refuse to accept that sometimes you are doing more harm than good and, above all, that the solutions you always advocate may not eventually be the right ones for all places at all times.

That is what I tell MM all the time.  His posts may be erudite and technically correct, and even witty, but his posts are doing more harm than good, because he just makes Portuguese posters post even more incomprehensible drivel here.  He need to be more like that poster Joan Robinson, who always advocated solutions that were eventually the right ones for all places at all times, and who seldom sparked the dreaded porkchop diatribe.

Eggplant. EGGPLANT. Only HVC is given the porkchop title, by my divine grace.

[Ed Anger]

No, you just refuse to accept that sometimes you are doing more harm than good and, above all, that the solutions you always advocate may not eventually be the right ones for all places at all times.

That is what I tell MM all the time.  His posts may be erudite and technically correct, and even witty, but his posts are doing more harm than good, because he just makes Portuguese posters post even more incomprehensible drivel here.  He need to be more like that poster Joan Robinson, who always advocated solutions that were eventually the right ones for all places at all times, and who seldom sparked the dreaded porkchop diatribe.

Eggplant. EGGPLANT. Only HVC is given the porkchop title, by my divine grace.

Remember, what has been given can be taketh away.

[HVC]

Remember, what has been given can be taketh away.

I was hoping the no takesies backsies rule was in play

[Ed Anger]

Remember, what has been given can be taketh away.

I was hoping the no takesies backsies rule was in play

I am: Indian Giver 

[grumbler]

Remember, what has been given can be taketh away.

I was hoping the no takesies backsies rule was in play

I am: Indian Giver 

I thought HVC was a pork chop, not an Indian. 

[Martim Silva]

Eggplant. EGGPLANT. Only HVC is given the porkchop title, by my divine grace.

I must have hit some sort of cultural wall here. I am afraid I do not follow the line of reasoning.

[HVC]

I must have hit some sort of cultural wall here. I am afraid I do not follow the line of reasoning.

It's a languish thing. For some reaons here Eggplant means Portuguese instead of Italians. I fought the good fight to ensure accuracy in racial slurs , but in the end i failed

[Martim Silva]

It's a languish thing. For some reaons here Eggplant means Portuguese instead of Italians. I fought the good fight to ensure accuracy in racial slurs , but in the end i failed

Eggplant is supposed to mean Italians? Why? 

[grumbler]

I must have hit some sort of cultural wall here. I am afraid I do not follow the line of reasoning.

It's a languish thing. For some reaons here Eggplant means Portuguese instead of Italians. I fought the good fight to ensure accuracy in racial slurs , but in the end i failed

Actually, it is a US thing, I think.

Eggplant also (I am pretty sure) means Sicilians, not Italians in general (and I think it is used by Italians as an insult to Sicilians, in the US).

[grumbler]

It's a languish thing. For some reaons here Eggplant means Portuguese instead of Italians. I fought the good fight to ensure accuracy in racial slurs , but in the end i failed

Eggplant is supposed to mean Italians? Why? 

It is used as an insult for Sicilians, to imply that they have African blood.  Dark skin, in other words, like an eggplant.

[Legbiter]

It is used as an insult for Sicilians, to imply that they have African blood.  Dark skin, in other words, like an eggplant.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=_svnsF5OLbI&feature=related for instance. Only good scene in that entire movie.

[grumbler]

Legbiter! :woot:

Good to see you, dude!

[jimmy olsen]

Here, here! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35806883/ns/us_news-education/

It's Up to Iraqis Now. Good Luck.

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: March 9, 2010

Of all the pictures I saw from the Iraqi elections last weekend, my favorite was on nytimes.com: an Iraqi expatriate mother, voting in Michigan, holding up her son to let him stuff her ballot into the box. I loved that picture. Being able to freely cast a ballot for the candidate of your choice is still unusual for Iraqis and for that entire region. That mother seemed to be saying: When I was a child, I never got to vote. I want to live in a world where my child will always be able to.

God bless her. This was a very good day for Iraq.

To say that mere voting or an election or two makes Iraq a success story would obviously be mistaken. An election does not a democracy make — and Iraq's politicians still have yet to prove that they are up to governing, nation-building and both establishing and abiding by the rule of law. But this election is a big deal because Iraqis — with the help of the U.N., the U.S. military and the Obama team, particularly Vice President Joe Biden — overcame two huge obstacles.

They overcame an array of sectarian disputes that repeatedly threatened to derail this election. And they came out to vote — Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds — despite the bombs set off by Al Qaeda and the dead-end Baathists who desperately want to keep the democracy project in Iraq from succeeding. This latter point is particularly crucial. The only way Al Qaeda, Baathism and violent Islamism will truly be defeated is when Arabs and Muslims themselves — not us — show they are willing to fight and die for a more democratic, tolerant and progressive future. Al Qaeda desperately wanted the U.S. project in Iraq to fail, but the Iraqi people just keep on keeping it alive.

And how about you, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran? How are you feeling today? Yes, I am sure you have your proxies in Iraq. But I am also sure you know what some of your people are quietly saying: "How come we Iranian-Persian-Shiites — who always viewed ourselves as superior to Iraqi-Arab-Shiites — can only vote for a handful of pre-chewed, pre-digested, 'approved' candidates from the supreme leader, while those lowly Iraqi Shiites, who have been hanging around with America for seven years, get to vote for whomever they want?" Unlike in Tehran, Iraqis actually count the votes. This will subtly fuel the discontent in Iran.

Yes, the U.S.'s toppling of Saddam Hussein helped Iran expand its influence into the Arab world. Saddam's Iraq was a temporary iron-fisted bulwark against Iranian expansion. But if Iraq has any sort of decent outcome — and becomes a real Shiite-majority, multiethnic democracy right next door to the phony Iranian version — it will be a source of permanent pressure on the Iranian regime. It will be a constant reminder that "Islamic democracy" — the rigged system the Iranians set up — is nonsense. Real "Islamic democracy" is just like any other democracy, except with Muslims voting.

Former President George W. Bush's gut instinct that this region craved and needed democracy was always right. It should have and could have been pursued with much better planning and execution. This war has been extraordinarily painful and costly. But democracy was never going to have a virgin birth in a place like Iraq, which has never known any such thing.

Some argue that nothing that happens in Iraq will ever justify the costs. Historians will sort that out. Personally, at this stage, I only care about one thing: that the outcome in Iraq be positive enough and forward-looking enough that those who have actually paid the price — in lost loved ones or injured bodies, in broken homes or broken lives, be they Iraqis or Americans or Brits — see Iraq evolve into something that will enable them to say that whatever the cost, it has given freedom and decent government to people who had none.

That, though, will depend on Iraqis and their leaders. It was hopeful to see the strong voter turnout — 62 percent — and the fact that some of the largest percentage of voting occurred in regions, like Kirkuk and Nineveh Provinces, that are hotly disputed. It means people are ready to use politics to resolve disputes, not just arms.

We can only hope so. President Obama has handled his Iraq inheritance deftly, but he is committed to the withdrawal timetable. As such, our influence there will be less decisive every day. We need Iraqi leaders to prove to their people that they are not just venal elites out to seize the spoils of power more than to seize this incredible opportunity to remake Iraq. We need to see real institution-builders emerge, including builders of a viable justice system and economy. And we need to be wary that too big an army and too much oil can warp any regime.

Iraq will be said to have a decent outcome not just if that young boy whose mother let him cast her ballot gets to vote one day himself. It will be a decent outcome only if his life chances improve — because he lives in a country with basic security, basic services, real jobs and decent governance.

I wish I could say that that was inevitable. It is not. But it is no longer unattainable, and I for one will keep rooting for it to happen.