Obama refuses to support UK sovereignty over Falklands

Started by Hansmeister, February 25, 2010, 06:06:11 PM

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Neil

Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 25, 2010, 07:30:51 PM
I don't see what Argentina has to offer us that's worth muddying the relationship with the UK. As far as I can see, US interests lie strongly with supporting the UK.
As far as I can see, the existing US policy on the dispute has served the US well and shouldn't be changed without a necessity.  I see no reason why the US should reverse itself at this point and agree with Britain's claims.
Because to do anything else is evil.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Fate

Quote from: Neil on February 25, 2010, 07:52:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 25, 2010, 07:30:51 PM
I don't see what Argentina has to offer us that's worth muddying the relationship with the UK. As far as I can see, US interests lie strongly with supporting the UK.
As far as I can see, the existing US policy on the dispute has served the US well and shouldn't be changed without a necessity.  I see no reason why the US should reverse itself at this point and agree with Britain's claims.
Because to do anything else is evil.

Why should we help the spineless brits when they're cutting and running from their commitments against terror?

dps

Quote from: Fate on February 25, 2010, 07:49:30 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 25, 2010, 07:30:51 PM
I don't see what Argentina has to offer us that's worth muddying the relationship with the UK. As far as I can see, US interests lie strongly with supporting the UK.
As far as I can see, the existing US policy on the dispute has served the US well and shouldn't be changed without a necessity.  I see no reason why the US should reverse itself at this point and agree with Britain's claims.

Do you mean Hans and Tim are trying to stir up controversy where none exists? Say it ain't so grumbles!

I think that he means that Hans is doing that, and Tim is dumb enough to fall for it.  ;)

Martim Silva

This is interesting. In the Mexico summit, all the Latin American countries could agree on was two things:

1. Argentina should have the Falklands (or Malvinas, as we call them here), and

2. A new american organization should be formed beyond the Organization of American States, but one that specifically excludes the US and Canada from membership.

If Obama backs down on the Brits, their only ally in the Americas would be Canada... maybe.

Cute. Too bad both sides are too bankrupt to do anything serious, 'cause a nice war there would liven things up again. I enjoyed the first one.

Neil

Britain doesn't really need to do anything.  The status quo works in the favour, and a single SSN could easily balk any military solution that Argentina might attempt.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Martim Silva

Quote from: Neil on February 25, 2010, 08:39:00 PM
Britain doesn't really need to do anything.  The status quo works in the favour, and a single SSN could easily balk any military solution that Argentina might attempt.

Maybe. But what Argentina is doing now is denying the use of its ports to Britain. What this means is that all the gear and supplies for oil drilling operations now have to come from areas considerably to the North of the Falklands, and that makes an eventual extraction of oil more expensive, thus less appealing.

And if all nations in the area agree that Britain should not be down there, then the British companies will have to get their gear from Europe, which basically means no oil for London until it gets to $200+ a barrel.

HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: Martim Silva on February 25, 2010, 08:31:02 PM
If Obama backs down on the Brits, their only ally in the Americas would be Canada... maybe.

Great. It's like getting stuck with the skinny dorky kid that's always picked last. :rolleyes:
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help

Neil

Canada isn't really a reliable US ally anyways.  The Liberal Party is suspect, and the NDP wanted to join the Warsaw Pact in the 80s.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

I thought the US was neutral on the situation before.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

sbr

Quote from: Razgovory on February 25, 2010, 09:13:00 PM
I thought the US was neutral on the situation before.

Reagan being neutral > Obama being a spineless wimp.   ;)


Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on February 25, 2010, 10:19:39 PM
How so?
Since you already know who April Gilespie is, and what the similarities are between that case and this, why don't we just skip ahead to your objection and leave out the pointless explanation.

Valmy

Quote from: Martim Silva on February 25, 2010, 08:31:02 PM
This is interesting. In the Mexico summit, all the Latin American countries could agree on was two things:

1. Argentina should have the Falklands (or Malvinas, as we call them here), and

2. A new american organization should be formed beyond the Organization of American States, but one that specifically excludes the US and Canada from membership.

If Obama backs down on the Brits, their only ally in the Americas would be Canada... maybe.

Cute. Too bad both sides are too bankrupt to do anything serious, 'cause a nice war there would liven things up again. I enjoyed the first one.

Your ignorance of Latin America continues to be a source of great entertainment.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

citizen k

Quote from: Martim Silva on February 25, 2010, 08:31:02 PM

2. A new american organization should be formed beyond the Organization of American States, but one that specifically excludes the US and Canada from membership.

Now why would they want that?  :hmm:




QuoteChavez rejects report citing rights violations
By CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER, Associated Press Feb 25, 8:55 pm ET

CARACAS, Venezuela – President Hugo Chavez said Thursday that Venezuela should boycott the Organization of American States' human rights body, saying the panel wrongly accused his government of political repression.

Chavez took issue with a report issued this week by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, which cited widespread human rights violations in Venezuela. The socialist leader called the 300-page report "pure garbage" and described the commission's president, Santiago Canton, as "excrement."

"We should prepare to denounce the agreement in which Venezuela joined ... this terrible Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and leave it," Chavez said during a televised address.

His threat drew criticism from a local rights activist.

"This is very bad signal," said Liliana Ortega of the Cofavic rights group. "Hopefully, he'll reconsider this decision."

Local rights activists applauded the report issued by the rights committee, saying it sheds light on widespread rights abuses.

The report released Wednesday at OAS headquarters in Washington complains of a lack of independence for Venezuela's judiciary, the closing of news media outlets that are critical of the government, and political discrimination and repression under Chavez.

"We don't recognize the commission as an impartial institution," said Gabriela Ramirez, the Venezuelan government's top rights guarantor. Ramirez said the report incorrectly concludes that "the Venezuelan state threatens democracy and human rights."

The report condemned the procedures for appointing and removing judges, saying the regulations "lack the safeguards necessary to prevent other branches of government from undermining the Supreme Court's independence."

Government opponents have long complained that the Supreme Court — whose members are appointed by the predominantly pro-Chavez National Assembly — has been packed with the president's allies, giving him nearly unlimited power. Chavez denies holding sway over justices.

The OAS commission also called attention to an increase in sanctions against news media, singling out the case of Globovision, a television news network that is fiercely critical of Chavez.

Globovision has been repeatedly fined for allegedly violating broadcast regulations, and Chavez has threatened to shutter the network.

"It is of particular concern," the rights commission said, "that in several of these cases, the investigations and administrative procedures began after the highest authorities of the state called on public agencies to take action against Globovision and other media outlets that are independent and critical of the government."

The report strongly condemned what it called "a trend toward the use of criminal charges to punish people exercising their right to demonstrate or protest against government policies," adding that more than 2,200 people have been indicted on criminal charges stemming from their participation in protests in recent years.

Carlos Correa, a leader of the Venezuelan human rights group Espacio Publico, welcomed the report. "It makes the violations that are occurring in Venezuela more visible" and should attract the attention of the international community, he said.

The report carries more weight than statements from independent rights watchdogs, because it "comes from an institution made up of the hemisphere's own states," Correa added.