Rape in America's Prisons

[Razgovory]

Huh, I wonder if this means when Strix said that Mexicans were serial rapists he meant it as a compliment.

[Ed Anger]

Huh, I wonder if this means when Strix said that Mexicans were serial rapists he meant it as a compliment.

They do like the Fruit Loops.

[Martinus]

You need to take your pick. They are either consensual acts between adults or violations of statutory law. Which is it Strix?

By definition isn't it impossible for them to be both?

No. Which is why it's called statutory rape. It doesn't fit under the definition of rape, so they needed to add a new statute. Which is what they do when it's between consenting parties.

So it's rape, but not rape-rape, Whoopi?

Seriously though, you do realize that a minor is unable to give consent (not to mention a minor in a position of subordination)? I didn't think I'd live to a day when someone on Languish actually makes an argument that the child in a statutory rape situation is "consenting". This is a pedophile's equivalent of a racist's "some of my friends are black" - just something you don't do, since it's so cliche.

[Admiral Yi]

So it's rape, but not rape-rape, Whoopi?

It's a legally prohibited act that is consensual and not coerced.  It's not that difficult a concept.

[Martinus]

So it's rape, but not rape-rape, Whoopi?

It's a legally prohibited act that is consensual and not coerced.  It's not that difficult a concept.

Statutory rape is NOT consensual, because a minor can't give consent. Necrophilia is not consensual either. Neither is sex with someone who is in a coma.

I just can't believe someone can be arguing a statutory rape is "consensual". It's simply mindboggling.

[Admiral Yi]

Statutory rape is NOT consensual, because a minor can't give consent. Necrophilia is not consensual either. Neither is sex with someone who is in a coma.

I just can't believe someone can be arguing a statutory rape is "consensual". It's simply mindboggling.

I can't believe someone is arguing that all statutory rape is with minors after Strix just explained that sex between prison guards and inmates is statutory rape.

[Martinus]

Statutory rape is NOT consensual, because a minor can't give consent. Necrophilia is not consensual either. Neither is sex with someone who is in a coma.

I just can't believe someone can be arguing a statutory rape is "consensual". It's simply mindboggling.

I can't believe someone is arguing that all statutory rape is with minors after Strix just explained that sex between prison guards and inmates is statutory rape.

What the fuck are you talking about? The article is about minors. Jaron's post, to which Strix was responding, to which I responded, was about sex with minors.

And, besides, sex where there is a coercion involved, even between adults, and even if there is no physical force used, is also rape.

[Admiral Yi]

What the fuck are you talking about? The article is about minors. Jaron's post, to which Strix was responding, to which I responded, was about sex with minors.

And, besides, sex where there is a coercion involved, even between adults, and even if there is no physical force used, is also rape.

Uh, no.  From Strix:

99% of the "rapes" that occur by the guards or other members of staff are consensual sex acts usually between adults. They are "rape" because of statutory law. If you look at the numbers I am sure you will find that the percentage of people who receive a reduced charge or plea for statutory rape is in line with what occurs at prison (plus the added fact that the person being charged just lost a good paying job with good benefits).

[Barrister]

So it's rape, but not rape-rape, Whoopi?

It's a legally prohibited act that is consensual and not coerced.  It's not that difficult a concept.

Statutory rape is NOT consensual, because a minor can't give consent. Necrophilia is not consensual either. Neither is sex with someone who is in a coma.

I just can't believe someone can be arguing a statutory rape is "consensual". It's simply mindboggling.

SOmething can be consentual in fact, but not in law. 

[Sheilbh]

I don't see why.  Inmates get horny too.

Because of the difference in power I think any consensual sexual relationship is more or less impossible.

If you do with an objective viewpoint and not a knee jerk reaction than you will notice how the article starts with a story designed to bring a strong emotional reaction than continues with stats and figures that are muddled. Sometimes the facts are about inmate to inmate relations than they are followed by a comment concerning guard to inmate relations. It is clear the article has an agenda and doesn't care how misleading the information is that supports that agenda.

This article has an agenda, most essays of this type do, in this case prison reform.  I can't think of any long-form essay that lacks an agenda.  I think the story that the article opens with is shocking, but that the statistics that follow are what's worse.

Where do you think the article's misleading, though?

I don't know where we're going on the consensual issue - the article mentions and discusses that aspect - in terms of the prisons for minors especially there can't be consent because they're minors, in prison there's no such thing as consent (which is why it's treated as statutory rape) and while in adult prison it's often those who are weaker or unable to defend themselves who get raped I imagine that in prisons for minor it's the younger inmates. 

I think the consent argument is a blind alley that ignores serious concerns from this survey about paedophilia, abuse of power and a systemic, institutionalised tolerance of rape and sexual abuse on the part of both guards and inmates.

[Admiral Yi]

Because of the difference in power I think any consensual sexual relationship is more or less impossible.

You're confusing me Shelf.  Do you mean to say that whenever the power imbalance is too great it is metaphysically impossible for the person with less power to freely desire sex with the other person?

[Sheilbh]

Because of the difference in power I think any consensual sexual relationship is more or less impossible.

You're confusing me Shelf.  Do you mean to say that whenever the power imbalance is too great it is metaphysically impossible for the person with less power to freely desire sex with the other person?

I don't think desire has anything to do with it. 

I think within certain power relationships it is almost impossible to have a concept like 'consent'.  Prison guard-inmate is one, I think minor-priest in a Catholic orphanage (as happened in Ireland) is another, I think until recently it's possible that there was a similar dynamic in the military.  I think consent requires a choice and I don't think that when there's a significant difference in power that that there can be a choice.  Which is why statutory rape exists and why it covers the prisoner-guard relationship.

[Neil]

Seriously though, you do realize that a minor is unable to give consent (not to mention a minor in a position of subordination)? I didn't think I'd live to a day when someone on Languish actually makes an argument that the child in a statutory rape situation is "consenting". This is a pedophile's equivalent of a racist's "some of my friends are black" - just something you don't do, since it's so cliche.

You make that argument all the time, as do other Languish homos.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think desire has anything to do with it. 

I think within certain power relationships it is almost impossible to have a concept like 'consent'.  Prison guard-inmate is one, I think minor-priest in a Catholic orphanage (as happened in Ireland) is another, I think until recently it's possible that there was a similar dynamic in the military.  I think consent requires a choice and I don't think that when there's a significant difference in power that that there can be a choice.  Which is why statutory rape exists and why it covers the prisoner-guard relationship.

You seem to be arguing with a strawman.  Strix never said we should lift the penalties on guard-inmate sex.

[Sheilbh]

You seem to be arguing with a strawman.  Strix never said we should lift the penalties on guard-inmate sex.

But I'm arguing with you not Strix about this, about whether or not it's possible for there to be consent in this circumstance.