Texas board tries to imbue school textbooks for the U.S. with God/Christianity

[jimmy olsen]

You've made the point that religion did not play a major role in the events surrounding the Revolutionary War and the adoption of the Constitution, and cited that as a reason not to emphasize religion more in history class.  I'm merely pointing out that while you are correct about the Revolutionary War and the Constitution, there's more to American History, and religion did play a major role in other important historical events.

You're underselling it, the Great Awakening had a significant impact on the world view of the founding generation and predisposed them to being less deferential to authority. This was certainly presented as a major factor in my College courses.

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/eighteen/ekeyinfo/erelrev.htm

[Viking]

NOTE TO AMERICA:

1.  The US was founded on a tax revolt, suitably spun.  It was not, or ever was, a religious experiment.
2.  Religion is a family matter, and if you want indoctrination, you need to do it AT HOME - don't count on the state.
3.  As per #2, do what you like at home, but DO NOT pretend that your personal religious beliefs = education.

Not a religious experiment, agreed. But the original settlement could be argued to be a religious experiment. You have Quakers, Puritans, Catholics etc. founding colonies for religious reasons. But, put a Quaker, Puritan, Catholic, Baptist, Congregationalist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian and Deist in a room and you find out that you can't have government dictating religion or preferring one religion over another.

Furthermore, taking a tax revolt and turning it into a nationalist revolt (Turning that English Particularist revolter into an American Patriot revolter) you need to attack the right of kings to tax. You need to attack the Divine Right of Kings and turn it on it's head and focus on the inalienable rights of all men endowed to them by their creator (too many Deists and Unitarians in the room to use the word God or Jehova), as opposed to the Divine Right to Rule granted to Kings.

Religion is a relevant factor and it colours everything that happened. You can't not talk about it.

[Barrister]

NOTE TO AMERICA:

1.  The US was founded on a tax revolt, suitably spun.  It was not, or ever was, a religious experiment.
2.  Religion is a family matter, and if you want indoctrination, you need to do it AT HOME - don't count on the state.
3.  As per #2, do what you like at home, but DO NOT pretend that your personal religious beliefs = education.

You're side-stepping the question Ank.  The issue isn't one of "religious indoctrination", but "including education about religion where appropriate", namely in history.

To pick an extreme example, you clearly have to talk about religion if you're discussing the Crusades, or 9/11.  So to what extent can/should religion be mentioned when discussing other historical events?  If you're going to discuss 9/11 (and think - there are already kids in gradeschool who were born after that event) part of it has to be to discuss militant islam - which is hardly the same as indoctrinating kids in islam.

[Ed Anger]

I had a year in 7th grade devoted to state history. Total waste of time, and an easy 'A'.

I had the same one. OMG we have Indian Mounds!!11

I hated those fucking mounds. And field trips to them.

[Valmy]

I find it rather funny so much is being discussed about teaching history in our schools all the sudden...a subject almost completely ignored most of the time.

Also I went to school in Texas and I recall religion being mentioned alot.  It frankly puzzles me what exactly they are trying to fix.  But then I actually went to history class and paid attention.

Also I find it strange that the Texas system, which is about as populist and locally controlled and anarchic as all get out, would be a leader other states follow.  I mean our system has always been on the bottom of education is almost every catagory.  Why would other states follow our example?

[jimmy olsen]

I find it rather funny so much is being discussed about teaching history in our schools all the sudden...a subject almost completely ignored most of the time.

Also I went to school in Texas and I recall religion being mentioned alot.  It frankly puzzles me what exactly they are trying to fix.  But then I actually went to history class and paid attention.

Also I find it strange that the Texas system, which is about as populist and locally controlled and anarchic as all get out, would be a leader other states follow.  I mean our system has always been on the bottom of education is almost every catagory.  Why would other states follow our example?

Population. California and Texas drive the market standard. Text book publishers who sell books nationwide have to satisfy both, which given their broad political differences is difficult, so they generally churn out generic crap. However, California is bankrupt and won't be buying new books so the focus is all on Texas right now.

[Valmy]

Well whatever they do to appease the God/Christianity types I am sure the result will be so dry and boring as to be utterly uninteresting.

[Viking]

Well whatever they do to appease the God/Christianity types I am sure the result will be so dry and boring as to be utterly uninteresting.

The phrase "America is a Christian Nation" in school social studies textbooks utterly uninteresting? Especially since the exact opposite of that phrase is US Law.

[dps]

I find it rather funny so much is being discussed about teaching history in our schools all the sudden...a subject almost completely ignored most of the time.

Also I went to school in Texas and I recall religion being mentioned alot.  It frankly puzzles me what exactly they are trying to fix.  But then I actually went to history class and paid attention.

Also I find it strange that the Texas system, which is about as populist and locally controlled and anarchic as all get out, would be a leader other states follow.  I mean our system has always been on the bottom of education is almost every catagory.  Why would other states follow our example?

Population. California and Texas drive the market standard. Text book publishers who to sell books nationwide have to satisfy both, which given their broad political differences is difficult, so they generally churn out generic crap. However, California is bankrupt and won't be buying new books so the focus is all on Texas right now.

The gimp nailed it on this one.  It's all about market size.

[Grallon]

The gimp nailed it on this one.  It's all about market size.

They do say that a great civilization is not destroyed by outsiders but rather commits suicide.  The greed of the american citizenry will be the undoing of America. 




G.

[grumbler]

As Faeelin said, it's because religion and religious conflict has had a huge hand in creating who we are as a nation, just as racial concerns and the feminist movement have done so. To ignore this aspect of influence is to ignore a huge portion of what happened and why, and how to interpret it today. It is essential to know the why as much as the what in order to move forward with the same agenda as the founding fathers intended.

I disagree.  Religion and religious conflict have had some impacts, but thety are minor.  One could understand everything important about American history without knowing anything about religion other than its impact on settlement patterns.  Things like The Great Awakening should be taught, but not as a central portion of a course on the time period - it is a sidebar.

[Neil]

They do say that a great civilization is not destroyed by outsiders but rather commits suicide.  The greed of the american citizenry will be the undoing of America. 

What does what you're saying have to do with the topic at hand?

[Neil]

I disagree.  Religion and religious conflict have had some impacts, but thety are minor.  One could understand everything important about American history without knowing anything about religion other than its impact on settlement patterns.  Things like The Great Awakening should be taught, but not as a central portion of a course on the time period - it is a sidebar.

Indeed.  I can't think of a single major event where religious conflict was utterly integral to the story.

[dps]

The gimp nailed it on this one.  It's all about market size.

They do say that a great civilization is not destroyed by outsiders but rather commits suicide.  The greed of the american citizenry will be the undoing of America. 




G.

Thanks for acknowledging our greatness. 

[jimmy olsen]

I disagree.  Religion and religious conflict have had some impacts, but thety are minor.  One could understand everything important about American history without knowing anything about religion other than its impact on settlement patterns.  Things like The Great Awakening should be taught, but not as a central portion of a course on the time period - it is a sidebar.

Indeed.  I can't think of a single major event where religious conflict was utterly integral to the story.

Abolition and the other antebellum 19th century reform movements were principally driven by Evangelicals, the former being one of the main causes of the Civil War.

Of course American Evangelicals during the 19th century mostly prescribed to postmillenialism which led them to focus on helping their fellow man here and now, while in the 20th century Evangelicals have shifted to premillenialism and a focus strictly on conversion and salvation.