France bars citizenship over veil

[Martinus]

France bars citizenship over veil
The French government has refused to grant citizenship to a foreign national on the grounds that he forced his wife to wear the full Islamic veil.

The man, whose current nationality was not given, needed citizenship to settle in the country with his French wife.

But Immigration Minister Eric Besson said this was being refused because he was depriving his wife of the liberty to come and go with her face uncovered.

Last week, a parliamentary committee proposed a partial ban on full veils.

It also recommended that anyone showing visible signs of "radical religious practice" be refused residence permits and citizenship.

'Integration'

In a statement, Mr Besson said he had signed a decree on Tuesday rejecting a man's citizenship application after it emerged that he had ordered his wife to cover herself with a head-to-toe veil.

"It became apparent during the regulation investigation and the prior interview that this person was compelling his wife to wear the all-covering veil, depriving her of the freedom to come and go with her face uncovered, and rejected the principles of secularism and equality between men and women," he said.

Later, the minister stressed that French law required anyone seeking naturalisation to demonstrate their desire for integration.

Mr Besson's decree has now been sent to Prime Minister Francois Fillon for approval.

The interior ministry says only 1,900 women wear full veils in France, home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority.

In 2008, a French court denied citizenship to a Moroccan woman on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam was incompatible with French values.

[Grey Fox]

[Martinus]

Incidentally, I find the title of this (BBC) article to be misleading.

[Viking]

While I don't respect religion in any way whatsoever, I don't consider this to be a reason to bar citizenship. The French get to be religious freaks as well.

[Tamas]

[Grallon]

We are pleased. 




G.

[Duque de Bragança]

Bon débarras.

[Grallon]

Now if we could only decide to really solve the problem permanently and expell the lot of them! 





G.

[Savonarola]

Now if we could only decide to really solve the problem permanently and expell the lot of them! 





G.

Have some soap:

[grumbler]

The thought struck me, as I read this, that there actually is a simple method by which the French can bar the religious nuts and yet not discriminate against them based on religious beliefs:  simply require them to sign and/or swear a statement saying that they acknowledge that they renounce the idea that any compulsion to attempt to get a person to adopt or retain any belief or belief system is and should be illegal and immoral.  The real nutbars believe that conversion from Islam should be punished with death, while non-nutbar Muslims realize that people have to be free to choose and even reject Islam.  It is surely a central tenet of French belief that people should have freedom of belief (not just religious belief) so this test is not a religious one, yet no nutbar would take such an oath/sign such a statement.

The US could do the same, incidentally.

It would take this case (surely justified) and make it into a more general rule that doesn't require overt actions on the part of the nutbars.

[derspiess]

I heart teh French

[Grey Fox]

The thought struck me, as I read this, that there actually is a simple method by which the French can bar the religious nuts and yet not discriminate against them based on religious beliefs:  simply require them to sign and/or swear a statement saying that they acknowledge that they renounce the idea that any compulsion to attempt to get a person to adopt or retain any belief or belief system is and should be illegal and immoral.  The real nutbars believe that conversion from Islam should be punished with death, while non-nutbar Muslims realize that people have to be free to choose and even reject Islam.  It is surely a central tenet of French belief that people should have freedom of belief (not just religious belief) so this test is not a religious one, yet no nutbar would take such an oath/sign such a statement.

The US could do the same, incidentally.

It would take this case (surely justified) and make it into a more general rule that doesn't require overt actions on the part of the nutbars.

It's a good idea.

[Grallon]

The thought struck me, as I read this, that there actually is a simple method by which the French can bar the religious nuts and yet not discriminate against them based on religious beliefs...

You forget the homegrown variety; those 2nd generation immigrants, supposedly well integrated until they dive into the death cult of their home country even after a lifetime in the West.

Islamist extremism is a product of Islam - it's not seperate from it.  It's not a fluke or an individual insanity.  It's a cultural meme that can appear at any time and any place.  And as we saw in 2001 - all you need to change the world is 20 people with cardboard cutters and filled with a holy vision.




G.

[derspiess]

The thought struck me, as I read this, that there actually is a simple method by which the French can bar the religious nuts and yet not discriminate against them based on religious beliefs:  simply require them to sign and/or swear a statement saying that they acknowledge that they renounce the idea that any compulsion to attempt to get a person to adopt or retain any belief or belief system is and should be illegal and immoral.  The real nutbars believe that conversion from Islam should be punished with death, while non-nutbar Muslims realize that people have to be free to choose and even reject Islam.  It is surely a central tenet of French belief that people should have freedom of belief (not just religious belief) so this test is not a religious one, yet no nutbar would take such an oath/sign such a statement.

The US could do the same, incidentally.

It would take this case (surely justified) and make it into a more general rule that doesn't require overt actions on the part of the nutbars.

Excellent idea.  I think it would be as effective as abstinence pledges for teens.  Maybe we could even get them to wear a ring to symbolize their oath

[Valmy]

While I don't respect religion in any way whatsoever, I don't consider this to be a reason to bar citizenship. The French get to be religious freaks as well.

I don't see why they should be required to make anybody a citizen.  They can reject somebody for citizenship anyway they want.  They could demand no left handed people are allowed to become citizens if it moves them to do so.