Hungary on the ‘brink of ruin’

[Zanza]

As an aside, I know that individual eurozone countries have the deficit caps, is the same true for the EU commission?  Are they allowed to deficit spend?

While I don't know, I very much doubt that. There is no way the member states would allow the EU commission to just spend money it doesn't have.

The Eurozone deficit caps are enforced by the commission and the finance ministers of all EU countries (not just the Eurozone countries). Obviously in this crisis nobody really cares.

[Mikael Hakim]

The article comments on the msnbc site are positvely disgusting. Americans, you've outdone BBC have your say!

I'm curious which comments irked you.  I just skimmed them and didn't find any that were outrageously boneheaded.  Maybe a few that were medium boneheaded.

Somehow the vast majority of them was about  blaiming the situation on either EU, Obama or capitalism.

[Admiral Yi]

The Eurozone stuff isn't set in stone, I think it's largely guidelines and it's largely enforced by the European Central Bank, which like any central bank can release €7 trillion, as the Fed did a week or two ago, for various measures.  I think the EU have declared that they won't allow the bankruptcy of any member state to happen, through the ECB taking on a less scary IMF like role for member states - from what I understand.

What happened?  Were the deficit limits "clarified" after France and Germany broke them?  Was the treaty rewritten?

[Tamas]

The Eurozone stuff isn't set in stone, I think it's largely guidelines and it's largely enforced by the European Central Bank, which like any central bank can release €7 trillion, as the Fed did a week or two ago, for various measures.  I think the EU have declared that they won't allow the bankruptcy of any member state to happen, through the ECB taking on a less scary IMF like role for member states - from what I understand.

What happened?  Were the deficit limits "clarified" after France and Germany broke them?  Was the treaty rewritten?

AFAIK, the only thing happened was that France and Germany were just big enough to make the EU ignore their brake of the treaty.

[Siege]

How can Hungary be on the brink of ruin?  That's like Pompey being on the brink of ruin.

You sound like a guy who has never left his parents' basement.

But it's a first world basement

You lucky bastard.

Think of the geeks in Africa.

[Alatriste]

The Eurozone stuff isn't set in stone, I think it's largely guidelines and it's largely enforced by the European Central Bank, which like any central bank can release €7 trillion, as the Fed did a week or two ago, for various measures.  I think the EU have declared that they won't allow the bankruptcy of any member state to happen, through the ECB taking on a less scary IMF like role for member states - from what I understand.

What happened?  Were the deficit limits "clarified" after France and Germany broke them?  Was the treaty rewritten?

Actually our more conservative press duly reports every two-three months the progress of a sanction procedure against Spain (and five or six eurozone countries more, but that rarely gets a mention) for exceeding the 3% deficit cap. No one believes that sanctions will really be applied, of course, except some rabid conservatives, our national version of Fox news, O'Reilly and Coulter.

Regarding the clauses of the Treaty as written no one seems to really know. I guess the text from the start included enough loopholes, exceptions, lengthy procedures, etc., to make the 3% cap flexible, at least enough for an state to ignore it for some years. In practice if not in theory the Treaty is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules, as Capt. Barbosa would say. Besides, and from an estrictly empiric point of view, I think a rigid cap would have been a bad idea. What if, for example, a real war started, an epidemic breaks out or an asteroid hit the Earth and we found ourselves legally forbidden to spend badly needed money...

In general EU regulations are sane, contrary to the crap you usually hear. For example, Schengen countries have suppressed border controls, but the treaties include provisions to reinstate them in case of emergency, and they have been applied on accasions (the last was just yesterday, France and Germany did reactivate them for the NATO summit)

[The Brain]

How can Hungary be on the brink of ruin?  That's like Pompey being on the brink of ruin.

You sound like a guy who has never left his parents' basement.

But it's a first world basement

You lucky bastard.

Think of the geeks in Africa.

[Admiral Yi]

Regarding the clauses of the Treaty as written no one seems to really know.

How is that not on the public record?

On a related topic, does anyone know the situation with fines for countries that don't meet their Kyoto limits?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Regarding the clauses of the Treaty as written no one seems to really know.

How is that not on the public record?

It's unlikely that those aren't in the public record. It is likely that they need translating from political-speech to humans speech.

[Valmy]

Not long ago, Hungary was Eastern Europe's shining light, the one former Communist nation that was destined to catch up to its richer, Western European neighbors.

When exactly was this again? 

[Ed Anger]

Not long ago, Hungary was Eastern Europe's shining light, the one former Communist nation that was destined to catch up to its richer, Western European neighbors.

When exactly was this again? 

Right before Lechfeld.

[Sheilbh]

Not long ago, Hungary was Eastern Europe's shining light, the one former Communist nation that was destined to catch up to its richer, Western European neighbors.

When exactly was this again? 

Good point.  I always thought the sprinters were the Czech Republic and Slovenia.  Poland had further to go and the Baltics, Hungary and Slovakia had more institutional problems.  And somewhere, running backwards, was Romania and Bulgaria.

[Zanza]

Hey Tamas, is Kecskemét nice?

[Tamas]

Heh, you guys quickly forget that it was us who let the East Germans into Austria thus breaching the first hole on the whole iron curtain thing. Then we did have some headstart since the old commies decided its time to change cloaks and actually helped the whole free market and democracy thing forward, instead of trying to hinder it.

But yes, this whole thing was lost around 2002 the latest.

[Tamas]

Hey Tamas, is Kecskemét nice?

I haven't been there for ages. Was kinda' nice, but nothing special.