Blockbuster Ruling in Kansas Abortion Murder Trial

[Valmy]

BUt I think you might be mistaken.

I might very well be.

I was speculating based on the enormous difference between on one hand roughly 20,000 late term US abortions every year and the supposed very low number of doctors who do them.  Those doctors must either be really busy or there is something else at play.  So I speculated that perhaps a large number of those abortions were not elective.

Further I do often think about how incredibly different this country would be if the 1.2 million babies we abort every year were born.  I mean that is a shitload of babies.  We could ship them all to Estonia and double the country's population.

[grumbler]

Really? If I knew of a man who was killing hundreds of people who were just walking down the street, and the state wouldn't stop him, I might find his killer noble.

So you would kill bomber pilots if you thought they were killing hundreds of people?  What about dozens of people?  Couples of people?  One person?

Just kinda curious as to what the threshold is where murder becomes noble in your eyes.

[grumbler]

BUt I think you might be mistaken.  Most of those abortions are likely for genetic deficiencies like Down's Syndrome, or any of a host of other disorders that means a baby isn't 'perfect', but is far from meaning the baby isn't viable.

Evidence indicates that this is not the case.  When this issue came up some time ago, someone posted a study that indicated that the majority of late-term abortions occurred because the mother was unable to get an abortion any earlier (often because she hadn't recognized the symptoms of pregnancy early, and then had to wait to obtain the abortion).  Nations with better health care systems had fewer late term abortions because women could get abortions before they became late-term.

[Valmy]

Evidence indicates that this is not the case.  When this issue came up some time ago, someone posted a study that indicated that the majority of late-term abortions occurred because the mother was unable to get an abortion any earlier (often because she hadn't recognized the symptoms of pregnancy early, and then had to wait to obtain the abortion).  Nations with better health care systems had fewer late term abortions because women could get abortions before they became late-term.

I can see that but the question remains for me: if there are so few doctors willing to do late term abortions to the point their names are well known who is performing all these abortions?

[merithyn]

According to this website, there are only 23 clinics in the country that do "Late-term" abortions. According to this report, only 1170 abortions were done after viability (24 weeks) in the U.S. in 1992. And according to this article, the reason women gave for having late abortions was exactly what grumbler said, they didn't or couldn't get one earlier.

Given that there were an estimated 1.5 million abortions in 1992 and there are so few clinics who even do them, late-term abortions are incredibly rare. Add to that the 35 states that prohibit or curtail later-term abortions, one can see that it just doesn't happen that often.

As a strong proponent of the right to choose, I find this story appalling, but am not the least bit surprised that it's come out of Kansas. This man deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison, but given where he committed his crime and the defense he'll use, I doubt he'll get serve 10 years. Bastard.   

[Admiral Yi]

As a strong proponent of the right to choose, I find this story appalling, but am not the least bit surprised that it's come out of Kansas. This man deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison, but given where he committed his crime and the defense he'll use, I doubt he'll get 10 years. Bastard.   

I'll take the over.

[merithyn]

As a strong proponent of the right to choose, I find this story appalling, but am not the least bit surprised that it's come out of Kansas. This man deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison, but given where he committed his crime and the defense he'll use, I doubt he'll get serve 10 years. Bastard.   

I'll take the over.

Corrected

[Faeelin]

Really? If I knew of a man who was killing hundreds of people who were just walking down the street, and the state wouldn't stop him, I might find his killer noble.

So you would kill bomber pilots if you thought they were killing hundreds of people?  What about dozens of people?  Couples of people?  One person?

Just kinda curious as to what the threshold is where murder becomes noble in your eyes.

I don't know where the threshold is, actually. I also don't see a bomber pilot as analogous, since I do think some wars are necessary or right, even though innocent people may die.

[Valmy]

I don't know where the threshold is, actually. I also don't see a bomber pilot as analogous, since I do think some wars are necessary or right, even though innocent people may die.

Except in the case of abortion doctors they are simply carrying out the will of their patients.  Essentially you are not even killing the murderer only the person who sold them the gun.  The women who decide to get abortions are the ones responsible and thus in your logic are the murderers who must be killed.

[Admiral Yi]

Except in the case of abortion doctors they are simply carrying out the will of their patients.  Essentially you are not even killing the murderer only the person who sold them the gun.  The women who decide to get abortions are the ones responsible and thus in your logic are the murderers who must be killed.

It's closer to a hit man than a gun salesman.

[Valmy]

It's closer to a hit man than a gun salesman.

So who is the murderer the person who hires the hitman or the hitman?

Also in this case the hiring person is bringing in the person to be killed in her belly.  Sort of like if the "hit" had the customer hauling in the mark bound and gagged.  So still the customer is not responsible?

[Admiral Yi]

So who is the murderer the person who hires the hitman or the hitman?

Also in this case the hiring person is bringing in the person to be killed in her belly.  Sort of like if the "hit" had the customer hauling in the mark bound and gagged.  So still the customer is not responsible?

I agree with your point.  If the Army of God had any balls they would be mowing down women who have had abortions.

[The Brain]

That's a little late isn't it? Shouldn't it be women who are about to have abortions?

[Valmy]

I agree with your point.  If the Army of God had any balls they would be mowing down women who have had abortions.

It just strikes me as annoying gender double standard number 4 billion that people vent their anger at the male doctor since clearly he is forcing the poor victim women to get abortions and thus the monster.  It is just weird.  People will jump through incredible hoops of logic to make sure women stay passive figures incapable of making their own choices.

[Valmy]

That's a little late isn't it? Shouldn't it be women who are about to have abortions?

We had to kill the baby in order to save it.